A Solution Would Be Nice

The links below give serious cause to question the city’s credibility on actual crime statistics as a whole:

http://midbeaconhill.blogspot.com/2008/03/spd-crime-data-still-screwy.html

http://www.rainiervalleypost.com/?p=4942

http://www.rainiervalleypost.com/?p=3330

Besides, taking Mayor Nickels word for it on crime stats is kind of like taking Big Coal’s word for it on emission impacts. I’m not saying there is a horrible epidemic, it’s just that for those of us that live in and work in this particular neighborhood the deterioration is noticeable, but not the end of the world. I don’t have an easy remedy for big city problems but I do think a more visible police presence would go a long ways.

Speaking of statistics, I’d like to see something tangible justifying the notion that drunk frat boys are crippling the overall ability of the police to deal with anything else. Most of the police I see are consumed dealing with the day in day out neighborhood bullshit that goes on all the time.

To quote the Wu Tang Clan, “hard core fans demand more.” I just think it’s time to raise the management standards, we should all be able to appreciate that.

@9 & John @ 6 - It's not just outsiders, it's also the people who live there and the reasons they ostensibly live there for. Drug dealers sell drugs where a market exists--if one exists in a theoretically "nice" part of town, then perhaps it's not just poor people selling to poor people.

Look, here's the problem: The statistics just plain don't seem to back up the idea that the city is facing a crime wave, and certainly not one of Johannesburgian proportions as John suggests could happen. If we look at Belltown, what do we see? A lot of bars, a lot of drinking, people moving there for the scene, people visiting for the scene, plus an influx of street people begging and various levels of drug dealing, from the street corner crack dealer to the guy selling coke in the back of a club. All of this is happening, and I don't dispute that. What I dispute is the perception that there's a crime wave of epic proportions, because that only exists in the minds of people who conflate drunk driving, sidewalk fist-fights, and abnormally aggressive behavior, with the crime associated with homeless street people, crackheads, and prostitution.

In other words, if you look at Belltown, things seem bad because it's turned into a crucible of all the negative influences affecting urban life. However, any reasonable person should be aware that there's not an easy solution to the problem of homelessness and poverty. So long as Belltown remains the scene it is, those elements are going to move towards it for the same reasons as now, just as they hit Pike/Pine and Pioneer Square. If Belltown loses the scene, the problems with self-mitigate. Do I want that to happen? No. But short of that they're not going away.

That said, if we accept that at least part of this is perception rather than reality (no one has yet demonstrate the crime stats are wrong, have they?), then it is fair to say that perhaps some of the responsibility should be upon the bars, restaurants, and clubs, to prevent fights, over-serving, accidents, and yes, drug dealing from inside. Think of it as the broken-windows approach: with fewer escalations overall, the odd extreme act of violence will start to seem more isolated, and people can actually figure out how to address those issues. But as long as the police have to keep spending so much time policing the well-off people the papers invariably describe as the "victims," they're never going to be dedicated to catching the crack dealers. They're too busy issuing DUIs, and whose fault is that?

The article was weak in it's argument over crime growth in this city. Moreover, it really isn't that the police don't care. The police can't care enough. Funding and backwards priorities are the culprits for the perceived apathy. None of which is made clear by Westneat. Moreover, he tosses any legitimate argument for crime growth or crime-fighting apathy when he casually mentions a crime watch group with ZERO call to action.

Again, is this a symptom of Seattle-wide Apathy? Oh, but shhhh, don't attack Westneat for just providing casual lipservice and feeding the issue.

By getting up in arms (yeah, I love puns) about this, starting at the neighborhood I live in, is doing more than Westneat did by writing 500 words of exodus.

And yeah, crime is up all over the place, but it's foolish to think it's all related to one root cause. We live in a city of cities, a modern, western metropolis of garden cities where each neighborhood has it's own distinct motivations and make-up.

The significant causes of crime on the Hill are markedly different than those in Belltown or Ballard or SoDo or Rainer Beach.

It's impossible to try to tackle all neighborhood's crimes in one motion, so we're addressing Belltown. Keep the irresponsible clubs in check, we'll see significant decline in beatings. That's why I love the bars I patronize. They're willing to say "You've had enough."

"Outsiders" is the oldest cliche in the world when it comes to laying blame for crime. In any case, who cares where the perpetrators are from? This stuff is happening, and not just in Belltown. How many bashings have we read about recently on Capitol Hill? How many shootings in the Central District or outside nightclubs in Pioneer Square? How many car prowls and home burglaries that don't even get reported because we know the police can't/won't do anything?

The column didn't focus on one event in Belltown, and to attack the columnist is disingenuous and misses the point. (On the other hand, the implication that things are worse here than in Detroit is ridiculous.)

Yeah, but they're the ones causing the vast majority of the crime getting people in an uproar. We may turn a blind eye to the majority of drug crime, because it's a symptom not the disease. Getting too drunk for your own good and beating someone into a coma or death... that's pretty much damn close to the disease.

Yeah, violence is far worse than drug dealing and use.

I refuse to blame Bellevue for the majority of Belltown's crime.

I do agree that drugs and alcohol are pivotal factors for much that is wrong there, although I think singularly blaming the yuppies is an oversimplification although it is fun.

You're right. Singular blame is not my intent. I'm simply countering with the fact that the "Yuppie" issue when it comes to Belltown's crime is more easily remedied by regulation than chasing down the outer layer of a National issue.

The Yuppie invasion, bars serving too much too quickly, and boorish attitudes are much easier to address than a breakdown of our nations "war on drugs."

However, yes, I do think the majority of the dangerous to passer-by crimes, the ones everyone gets up in arms about, are due to 'outsiders.' Again, as I've stated time and time, the 'real' criminals stay in the shadows.

So the bridge and tunnel crowd spending their money in Belltown is the reason for the graffitti, car break ins and shady back alley shit going down at 2:30 on a Wednesday afternoon? Please.

While yuppies may account for a lot of fist fights on Friday nights its disingenuous to pretend the steady crime in Belltown stems from two drinking binges a week. It isn’t racial, it’s poor people of every stripe getting away with what they can and the police will be the first people to tell you they wish they had more resources. We aren’t surprised by Belltown’s crime, we’re just ready for a more aggressive approach.

Danny mentions one of several Crime-Watch groups in Belltown... but does he offer a link? How to get involved?

Nah, he's from Seattle.

Agreed, Troy--this shit's totally unreasonable, and Danny Westneat's column was drivel. I don't know much about Detroit, but how this guy can claim he's never seen bad shit going down is beyond me. Perhaps he lived in the suburbs. Perhaps Detroit keeps the blacks and whites nicely separated so all the whites who smoke weed and do blow never have to feel "uncomfortable" about how and where it's sold. I don't know, but from everything I see and hear, the problem with Belltown has as much to do with with the up-and-up bridge and tunnel crowd who are in those restaurants and bars as it does with the scary people on the street. It's sad, that neighborhood's in the toilet, but it has as much to do with creating a meat-market singles party scene for twenty-somethings in brand new condo towers as anything. Statistics don't lie--Seattle's not that unsafe a city. Westneat's column feels an awful lot like one side of the story: what time did the attack take place? What was said to the drivers? Was there alcohol involved? And why is Belltown or certain parts of Capitol Hill supposed to be representative of the city? I know a lot of well off people live down in Belltown, but it's a part of the city that's been turned into spring break at Lake Havasu 24/7 for these people--it's not a good scene. If you live in a place that's known for huge flocks of people heading in to get drunk at bars and nightclubs on the weekends, why are you surprised that violence and drug use may follow? Are you stupid?

Agreed - I doubt that guy's from Detroit proper.

That guy's a crack-pot. Read "The City" by Joel Kotkin. Not the best book in the world, he loses his thesis in the second third of the book, but he brings it back 'round.

There is no way it'll rival Third World Country's crime rates. Their crime rates are almost biblical. It stems from a high disparity between incomes and the city being able to offer fundamental services (clean water, garbage disposal, less than 5 people to a room).

Obviously, anyone who could imagine within the foreseeable future that a developed world city would deteriorate to Third World status (where more than 65% of a city's population live either in squatter or slum conditions due mostly to population increases of over 400% within three generations and stagnant economies) is juvenile.

But yeah, it is getting worse out there. We need beat cops.