Seattlest: Chad Goller-Sojourner Takes on "Who Passed Prop 8?" Debate

bagahens

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:22:24 -0800

Just wanted to thank you, Chad for this great commentary. I don't like our rights being decided by vote either, but I believe the prop will be struck down by the courts after a long ugly and expensive battle, as usual. To get to the heart of your commentary, while I agree the minority vote probably did have some impact in terms of margins, and here I mean ALL ethnic minorities combined, I do not believe they passed the initiative. Your comment on the organization being based on the white Mormon and Catholic leadership is right on the money. As white people, we need to own that and not be pointing fingers at everyone else. I wholeheartedly agree that black activists need to organize in the black community. Why would the black community listen to me? Why should they? There are enough minds to change in my own community to keep me busy for a long time. So good on you, Chad, and thanks again.

mbq

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 03:20:48 -0800

err, by that, i mean that i believe that this should be a federal issue, and not a piecemeal state issue. let's hope that it happens within the next four years...

mbq

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 03:11:55 -0800

Some of my best friends, here in Washington State and elsewhere, voted against the guaranteed Obama presidency by voting *for* initiatives and candidates in direct opposition for what Obama represented. That's a factor in the passage of Prop8. Liberals against liberals means democracy; if there is a crack in there that non-liberals make their voice heard... well, that's just the process. That said, I really think that Prop8 should have been suffered potential defeat by the Supreme Court (with Federal appeal), and not by voter initiative. I'd love to witness a Constitutional Amendment Amendment (re-Amendment?).

Papa Tony

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:42:09 -0800

Enormous numbers of black folks are NOT COMING OUT to their families, due to fear of banishment from intolerant religiosity. It has been happening for centuries. It's time to break that killing cycle: COME OUT, no matter the cost. Yes, the family may reject you at first (mine sure did), but the sooner you do it, the sooner you'll develop a new, better relationship with your family (at least some of them), built on honesty. As long as gay folks give in to belligerent intolerance based on religion, the longer we will all be held down, just like the "confirmed bachelors" and "maiden aunts" of so many previous generations. My operating theory is that Prop 8 was supported so thoroughly by the black community due to the deeply-entrenched, self-righteous attitude promoted by religion. My own family was among the very worst, and yet now, (33 years after I came out), I'm a respected, loved and full member of my family. Change happened because _I_ caused the change. I want to talk to somebody who gladly voted yes on Proposition 8, and ask them "Is there somebody in your family that you love who is gay?" If they were to say "No", I want to say "Then I feel sorry for you, because there are people in your family who don't trust you enough to be truthful with you."

mib

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:00:57 -0800

Barrack- I think you need to read my post again without your pre-conceived notions of who I am and what my personal feelings are. The whole point of my comments are DEFENDING the black-community, and more specifically defending the will of their votes, and accusing the gay community of playing the victimization game that for so long has impinged on the civil rights advancements around race. The gay community can learn a thing or two from these efforts. As you said in your post: "The mainstream gay community is the one victimizing itself and pointing blame on the African-American community. And as a result it's demeaning said community." I couldn't agree more. My whole point is, if you want to make an advancement on this issue, the gay community needs to be honest with themselves. The African-American vote DID effect the outcome of this prop, and all empirical evidence supports this. Now go do something about it and quit making excuses that it was all the work of campaigns, whites, LDS, etc.

MvB

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:29:32 -0800

@mib: 1) the way I read it, Chad is precisely talking about engaging the black community in a real dialogue and how best to do that. 2) Better campaigns absolutely do make differences; I would think the Obama win is more than enough proof of that. 3) And it is one thing to say that it's unexpected and painful to have a majority of black voters oppose what's been framed as a civil rights issue, and another thing to say this had a "major effect" in comparison to other voting groups. The latter is not true.

barrack

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:23:12 -0800

Sorry, I dunno how I let this one slip past. Again, I'm quoting the 2nd commenter: "Regardless of your own feelings, by denying this simple fact you resort to old 'victim' policies of the past (see:Jackson, Sharpton, etc), and fail to embrace the major sea-change the Obama election has brought to this country." Realize what you're saying: You're telling a Black man that he should just be happy that Obama won. Not cool. Realize what you're ignoring: the mainstream gay community is doing the *very* thing that you accuse this author of. Mainstream gays were the ones who cared more about Prop 8 than Obama's victory.

barrack

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:00:03 -0800

I couldn't resist from responding to the 2nd comment. "Victimization politics don't work, they demean those they are targeted at. Hope, transparency, and responsibility do work and stick to that." The mainstream gay community is the one victimizing itself and pointing blame on the African-American community. And as a result it's demeaning said community. That applies to just about all your victimization/pointing blame/cooperation comments. "The simple fact is that the will of the African-American community DID have a major effect on the passing of this proposition." As stated, African-Americans only make up 6.7% of voting Californians. What about the Asian-American? The Latino community? Both of which are larger. The White community? I'm pretty sure that they were the biggest group who voted yes on 8. Nope nope... let's just blame the Black community. And I'm nto sure where you read that Black voters were duped into voting for Prop 8. The only person making that assumption is you.

mib

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:32:20 -0800

Hi Chad- I find the entire premise of your post insulting. You lay blame for the defeat of Prop 8 on the organization and execution of the "No on Prop 8" political organization. You particularly lay blame to the "white conservative men" who backed the initiative from the beginning. This is insulting, because for all of your assumptions to be true, you indicate that the voter's will was not realized in the election returns. You make the results of the election, in particular the record high turnout in the African-American community, irrelevant. Your insinuation is that these record new voters were 'duped' or did not understand what they were voting on. Your assumption that a better campaign would have made a difference assumes that voters are not sophisticated enough to understand the issue. The issue is quite simple, more simple then many of the complicated ballot initiatives we see each year. The simple fact is that the will of the African-American community DID have a major effect on the passing of this proposition. Regardless of your own feelings, by denying this simple fact you resort to old 'victim' policies of the past (see:Jackson, Sharpton, etc), and fail to embrace the major sea-change the Obama election has brought to this country. Stop pointing fingers at some 'boogie-man' who led to this issue's failure- whites men, religious organizations, etc. Quit playing victim and deal in the facts, engage your community in a real dialogue and you'll have a much better chance at their understanding the issues from your perspective-- and hopefully some day voting in your favor. It worked for Obama, it just might work for you. Victimization politics don't work, they demean those they are targeted at. Hope, transparency, and responsibility do work and stick to that.

barrack

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:26:44 -0800

As a person who identifies as a queer person of color, I want to say "THANK YOU!" Finally, someone who 'gets it.' Can this please be sent to all the gay newspapers? (And the Stranger / Dan Savage.)