Presidential Round Table Discussion
We have gathered some of the top political writers in the country and asked them to discuss the presidential race throughout the year. Today they will discuss the Democratic race between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
Seattlest-- How do you feel Senator Clinton's recent attacks on Senator Obama are shaping the upcoming Texas and Ohio primaries?
Jeff (San Francisco Chronicle)-- I've got to come clean with my dirty secret-- I'm starting to get cold feet on Obama. I'd be lying if I said that Hillary's rhetoric about him not being experienced enough is starting to weigh on my mind. I'm sure in the end I'll stick with Obama, but honestly-- the thought that the Clintons are already well-versed in foreign policy does seem attractive.
Luke (Washington Post)-- The Clintons are also well versed in money laundering, lobbyist courting, backroom politics and shady principles. The APPEAL of Obama is that he is free of all that stuff. Jeff, if you're concerned, read Audacity of Hope. Just trust me on this, read it.
There are 3 branches of government that ideally all have a say in setting policy, foreign and domestic. I would really like to get back to a point where all of those influences are equally consulted. Which candidate do you think has the best temperament suited to that sort of discourse? The problem with the current administration is the "top heavy," "with us or against us" mentality, and Hillary seems to fit that mold pretty well.
The "experience" that Hillary brings isn't really the kind of experience I look for in a candidate anyway. I think her recent behavior is VERY illusory to the kind of action we can look for from her once she gets in the White House. You think she'll buckle down and build relationships and compromise when something her administration proposes doesn't get support from Congress? My personal feeling is that she'll muscle and browbeat and blackmail whoever she has to in order to get HER vision pushed through.
Austin (Time Magazine)-- It's interesting that you bring that up Jeff, since I have yet to come to terms with who I'd like to vote for. I feel like if I don't vote for Obama then I'm doing Liberals a disservice. But really, what the fuck have the liberals done for me anyway? It's not like they stood up and didn't confirm Supreme Court Justices who'd repeal Roe v. Wade if they had a chance.
And Obama, well, he didn't vote for the war in Iraq. Congrats. Good for you. But I can't blame Clinton for voting for what the majority of her constituents would have wanted her to vote for.
And what's the harm in having two intelligent adults running the country? It's not a bad alternative.
Don't get me wrong, I like Obama. I love the hope he gives his supporters. I like Clinton. I like the fact that I know where I stand with her. Her dirty secrets are not going to surprise me--unless she's a man.
Luke, the Clintons are well known in DC for this type of behavior. They've done it for years. Talk with reporters here and you'll find out really quickly that they are not to be trusted. They're manipulative motherfuckers. They plan everything out, and play the media and American people like they're Barnum & Bailey. But Presidents fuck people over. All the time. Obama will too.
But I don't see the difference between them. Either is going to try and brow beat the branches of government that doesn't agree with them. But don't be short sighted and think that Obama is going to make everyone one love him like he's a dealer at an ecstasy party.
That's why it's a tough decision for me. I love the hope that Obama brings. But I fear his fall. (At least his fall from the pedestal that we've put him on.)
Luke-- At the risk of simply invoking Pascal's Wager I feel like it's not critically responsible to make decisions based on "that's the way it is." I think it is a touch lazy to make decisions based on what outcomes you don't approve of, but are pretty sure might happen. To say Obama will "end up" as part of the "Washington culture" might be a statistical probability based on what happens to many lawmakers, but it isn't any sort of real analytical work to differentiate between the two. Pascal blew a brilliant math career because he couldn't justify the conflicts with his faith, but it doesn't mean that someone else would have made the same decision. I think Obama has a real shot at maintaining his integrity amidst all of that nonsense, so I'm willing to walk him to the sentry guarding the bridge, let the sentry ask him his favorite color, and see what happens. But again, that's why Pascal's wager is such a philosophical flash point.
"Is Obama's mouth writing checks his administration can't cash?" That's the real question, right? That's where we may differ individually. My personal opinion is that he is idealistic, naive, and green. But that's WHY I support him. He has no idea what he may be capable of doing, but nobody's told him what he CAN'T do either, and that's the part that I find most interesting. He will really have to rally a broad base of support for programs because the entrenched coalitions don't exist for him.
Ryan (Wall Street Journal)-- Sigh. I used to deal ecstasy at parties. Good times.
And Jeff, a certain amount of trepidation is certainly understandable, this is a very important election and after all you are a Super Delegate, so I'm glad you're taking the time to think this through. But do us all a favor, and stop thinking.
Barack Obama is the right choice. I know because he's not just a regular politician. I know because he hasn't taken money from any special interest groups. I know because he is genuinely interested in using people from both sides of the aisle to accomplish things, rather than Hillary, who would rather fight the Republicans to the death. I know because he looks WAY better in HD than she does, and that's important to someone as shallow as I am. And speaking of shallowness, I know because his song on You Tube was far better than Hillary's.
I understand it's a difficult decision for you, but let me be the bigger man here and leave you with these words of comfort. Whomever the Democratic nominee is this fall, they're going to win your home state of California, so in all likelihood, your vote won't matter anyway. See? Isn't that better? And I didn't even have to mention Pascal's Wager.
We get it Luke, you read.
Luke-- Let ME be the bigger man, and go fuck yourself.
Ryan-- Listen Luke, if we're going to have an honest discussion about these issues then we need to work together to transcend the whole idea of "my way" or "your way." It's not doing us any good to keep clinging to this divisiveness when we could be easily just be nice to each other and solve problems at the same time.
Luke-- [Holds up photo of Ryan from a 2004 President Bush press conference]
Ryan-- The notion that you would try to use this to imply in some way that I'm foreign or weird is, you know, unfortunate. These are the kinds of political tricks and silliness you start seeing at the end of campaigns.
I'm sorry fellas, but I think you would agree that Luke has engaged in the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering we've seen from either party in this discussion.
But I am undaunted. You can't daunt me, Luke. Because I know in my heart that I am right. And that's what matters. My heart. I know that the road will be long, and that the songs sung by a chorus of cynics just like Luke will only grow louder and more dissonant. People will say that I can't win this argument with just positive thinking and hope alone. But like thousands of people that came before me and the millions more that will follow, I need only respond with a few simple words...
What. Were. We. Talking. About?
Luke-- Oooooh, I’m a newspaper writer. I can make love to you with my words . . . Oooooh. Hey everybody, have you met my girlfriend, Words? Yeah, we're in love. Words is a massage therapist at Tubs . . . ooooh.
You can use all the flowery language you want, but it doesn't change the fact that your middle initial is K. And we all know what that stands for, KKK.
You voted for NAFTA.
Jeff-- WE'RE TEARING OURSELVES APART! If we continue down this path of acrimony, the terrorists have already won.
Tom (Rolling Stone)-- All this talk of there being "no difference" between Obama and Hillary is pure insanity.
While their stance on issues may seem (at a glance) to be similar, they way they go about achieving their goals is massively different. Hillary always starts with blaming the Republicans, and spends so much time doing this that she never gets to her solution. Obama starts at the solution, and talks from there.
All this talk about Obama being too "inexperienced" for the presidency is preposterous. Everyone knows all that the president needs to do is hire the right staff, speak well in public and provide leadership. Obama clearly will be able to handle whatever situation comes his way -- he is a pragmatist who makes decisions based upon the greater good (tempered with a bit of compassion).
Jeff-- I just wish he would pick an ethnicity and stick with it, so I can apply my prejudices with greater ease. I mean, do I hate him for being black, or do I hate him for having a Muslim name? This election has got me all twisted in knots!
John (Los Angeles Times)-- I'm frankly ready for a less experienced candidate if it means not going further down the path of what the presidency has become. I don't mind that the media has latched onto Obama as the feel-good-America guy. It's worlds more inspiring. The last time there was a figure like this -- good looking candidate who made pretty and inspiring speeches -- was JFK. I'm not saying JFK was Christ-like; in fact, there are many myths to be debunked about the untouchable JFK, but he made the nation feel like it was a little more united and a little more comfortable in the world's outlook. If the presidency and the nation is to start looking at itself fresh and with the audacity to change itself by wiping the mud of the past several years off, I have more confidence in Obama than Hillary. Besides, Obama spoke to me in a dream: He was a sandwich and I was Norman Mailer.
Jeff-- In review of this entire discussion, I think Hillary's campaign should adopt this slogan: Hillary. At least she'll make the trains run on time.
John-- I think Hillary's campaign should adopt this slogan: Hillary.
Mark (New York Times)-- When Hillary most likely gets beat in Texas, and narrowly wins in Ohio, will she wrap it up, or continue the fight?
The longer this goes on the weaker the Dems get, can they rally the base if half of it is disillusioned?
Will Hillary's most ardent supporters recover from her demise? Will they vote for Barack, or do they really find him as "phony" as endless comment threads suggest?
Sorry folks I deal only in beautiful questions, just flowery questions, but questions are important, how can you say that "What is my country asking me for," is just a question, or "We hold these truths to be self evident?" just a question? "Is that a banana in your pants?"
Jeff-- Poor Ralph Nader. The Washington "outsider" who was against the war. Oh wait, that position is already taken this year.
Austin-- You guys are all devoted to Obama, and as previously stated, I'm on the fence. Outside of reading The Audacity of Hope, what are his policies? Help me form a fuller opinion of the man.
Tom-- Pulling out of Iraq in a calculated fashion. Establishing relationships with countries distanced by Bush's "Axis Of Evil" plan; offering sanctions and other incentives for them to behave., instead of threatening to bomb them. Concentrating our forces on Afghanistan to ferret out terrorists. And now, because of Bush, focusing on Pakistan and doing the same.
Dropping cost of health care for average people; making it mandatory for parents to provide health insurance for kids under 18. Shifting tax laws to benefit more people; making corporations pay more. If you make under $15,000/year, you are exempt from paying taxes. Repealing "No Child Left Behind" Repealing aggressive environmental laws to benefit our future survival.
Galvanizing the American people, by virtue of his race, to accept people of color-- if you're a racist in Texas and you see a black president on the TV for four years, your opinion on blacks will naturally change. Not a policy, sure, but a product of his being elected. Fucking his wife real good, I saw it on Oprah! And this *is* his policy.
Jeff-- Regarding number eight. We had a black president. We almost died thanks to a large meteor/Gary and/or Jack Bauer. Is that what you want? A world where Jack Bauer almost kills us with a large meteor and Milla Jovovich has to save us? In seriousness [puts on oversized foam cowboy hat] I'm curious how Hillary differs from these below.
Tom-- Obama is for pulling out of Iraq in a calculated fashion. Hillary is unclear about her feelings about Iraq. Establishing relationships with countries distanced by Bush's "Axis Of Evil" plan; offering sanctions and other incentives for them to behave, instead of threatening to bomb them. Hillary does not want to talk with them unless they "behave" first, which will never happen. Concentrating our forces on Afghanistan to ferret out terrorists. And now, because of Bush, focusing on Pakistan and doing the same. Hillary has no plans to do this.
Dropping cost of health care for average people; making it mandatory for parents to provide health insurance for kids under 18.
Hillary wants to make health care universal WITHOUT dropping the costs first. She will impose heavy fines on those who don't buy health insurance (similar to car insurance, without the car, so assholes like me who have no money will BOTH have no health care AND be fined by the government.)
Shifting tax laws to benefit more people; making corporations pay more. If you make under $15,000/year, you are exempt from paying taxes. Hillary has no stated, solid plan for this.
Repealing "No Child Left Behind." Hillary has no stated, solid plan for this.
Repealing aggressive environmental laws to benefit our future survival. Hillary has no stated, solid plan for this.
Galvanizing the American people, by virtue of his race, to accept people of color. Gladly, the same thing will happen if Hillary is elected, for women's sake. But because Hillary is such a cool customer, it might backfire on people's views of women.
Luke-- I think Obama's willingness to meet with foreign leaders, especially ones we are hostile with, speaks volumes about his political style. He took a lot of flack from Hillary over this, because she says she would only meet with them if they met certain conditions or put certain policies in place and showed a real desire to move towards a more "Americanized" society. I just think this is another example of the kind of "We dictate to the rest of the world what needs to happen" sort of attitude. I'm tired of that. It's played out, and it's gotten us nothing but a bowl full of pralines and dick. Maybe that was an effective strategy during the Cold War, but it's not now. How about a little humility?
Look, I hate Ryan's guts. He's a hack, and at best, a marginal kisser. But I would still agree to meet with him and listen to his cock and bull stories about how women should be respected. But hey, I guess that's just the kind of humble and respectful guy I am.
Tom-- Oh, another thing, Obama wants to bring back manufacturing to America, starting with planting the seeds for reviving the electric/green car industry and using Arizona/Western states for wind energy, which, when harnessed, has enough energy to rival all the oil in Saudi Arabia.
Clinton says she wants to bring jobs back, but has no solid plans to do so.
John-- You had me at hello.
Ryan-- He never said hello.
John-- Exactly. [Music plays, credits roll]
Seattlest-- Thank you very much for your time.
