Seattlest: Cars V. Bikes: We're Shooting Now?

velo

Tue, 06 Nov 2007 12:52:45 -0800

Why don't drivers get upset about pedestrian jaywalking? I almost never hear anyone complain about that, but it happens constantly. How is it different? And this thing about cyclists running red lights without stopping first? Well I guess if you have a death wish, but most people don't. I have almost never seen anyone go through a red light without stopping to make sure it was clear first. Just like pedestrians almost always look before they jaywalk.

koggit

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 18:34:52 -0800

The problem is this: A solid 10% of bikers are enormous pricks. A solid 10% of drivers are enormous pricks. Also, bikes should have to pay taxes to use the road. I don't want my car taxes paying for these multimillion dollar bicycle projects.

Lake City Sniper

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 18:29:06 -0800

I want a cyclist died here sticker for my front bumper...

partyfernandez

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:25:44 -0800

i blame the 1986 kevin bacon film 'quicksilver'. he made bike messanging look very cool, and with his amazing hair, made helmets look gay. that said, put your helmets on, people, and recognize that you're not super visible. ie, if you're behind a car in traffic and see that they are turning right, don't pass them on the right as they slow down to turn...cuz as a car driver, i don't commonly look behind me to make sure i can turn right. i've almost hit bikers multiple times in this exact situation. THAT said, the guy described in the original post as tailgating the biker on 24th is an asshole.

elsathecat

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 13:06:47 -0800

kasa: from the Seattle Municipal Code: Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to a driver of a vehicle, except as to the special regulations of this chapter and except as to those provisions of this subtitle which by their nature can have no application. (RCW 46.61.755) http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?d=CODE&s1=11.44.020.snum.&Sect5=CODE1&Sect6=HITOFF&l=20&p=1&u=/~public/code1.htm&r=1&f=G SMC 11.44.040 Riding on roadways. Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed slower than the normal and reasonable flow of motor vehicle traffic thereon shall ride as near to the right side of the right through lane as is safe, except as may be appropriate while preparing to make or while making turning movements, or while overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction. A person operating a bicycle upon a roadway that carries traffic in one (1) direction only and that has two (2) or more marked traffic lanes may ride as near to the left side of the left through lane as is safe. A person operating a bicycle upon a roadway may utilize the shoulder of the roadway or any specially designated bicycle lane if such exists. (RCW 46.61770(1)) http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?d=CODE&s1=11.44.040.snum.&Sect5=CODE1&Sect6=HITOFF&l=20&p=1&u=/~public/code1.htm&r=1&f=G

kasa

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:45:59 -0800

For what it's worth, bikes are not cars, and so the whole argument that they should have to follow the exact same rules bugs me. Personally, I'm pretty cool with them doing the equivalent of biker jaywalking as long as it doesn't endanger anyone. On the same token however, they also need to remember that they are some thing they simply cannot do for the same reasons. For instance, recognizing that since you are on a bike, drivers frequently just don't see your ass, and really would probably rather not kill you and deal with the accompanying guilt and trauma for years, so please do your part in trying to not get dead too. And stop riding on the interstate, no matter how awesome Seattlest thinks it is.

Charles Redell

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:30:49 -0800

Looking beyond the fact that I don't want to inflame the war of words on this subject any further, obviously, I want respond to two of the comments. First of all, LisaPaige (and elsathecat), I agree with you. I've gotten into comment wars before about how riders need to know what our obligations are. It makes other riders really defensive when I bring it up because it is so much easier for a car and driver to smash and kill a bike rider. That said, I agree, there are some riders out there that need to be educated on what their legal obligations are while riding and then follow those obligations. On the flip side though, there are a lot of drivers out there who don't know that riders do have all the same rights to the road as cars. Legally we can ride in the middle of the lane, can ride two abreast and a host of other things that I often see drivers saying we shouldn't do. But you are right, with rights go responsibilities and educating riders on theirs is needed here. Seth, I don't think that what riders in Seattle are going through is equal in any way to what civil rights marchers in the South of the 60s went through or what gay-rights advocates everywhere today are facing. Not by a long shot. But when stories keep coming up about road rage directed at a certain class of road users, I think it's fair to say that there is a problem that needs to be addressed, no?

belle

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:30:12 -0800

i was really annoyed by the article in the Times yesterday about the ride in honor of Bryce Lewis. I think that's a really nice way to remember him, but the article mentions how the riders sometimes blocked traffic as the flow of bicyclists stretched for over a block. seems like being obnoxious would be counter-intuitive to encouraging drivers to share the road with bikers. also, the article did not mention that Lewis was not wearing a helmet when he was struck, and judging from the pictures it looks like several of the bikers who rode over the weekend were not wearing helmets either. i know that not wearing a helmet has nothing to do with safety among cars and bikes, but i think it aides elsathecat's point about the blatant disregard of traffic laws by many bikers. i was driving north on brooklyn in the u-district a few weeks ago and there was a biker cutting across 45th against the light AND against the flow of traffic, who then flipped me off when i nearly hit him. it's hard to feel sympathetic after experiences like that.

Seth

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:02:33 -0800

Sometimes I think bicyclists want to turn this whole issue into some sort of modern-day civil rights movement. It's just transportation for God's sake...get over yourselves.

LisaPaige

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 11:58:17 -0800

I read your post again, and I guess I wanted to clarify my thoughts. You talk about cyclists having the "same rights" as motorists. I guess I don't really understand what that means - I mean, we all have "the right" to make it to our destinations safely using any mode of travel (car, walk, bike), and we all have "the right" to travel where we want to, whenever we want to. A better way of saying it might be that cyclists and motorists have the same "obligations" rather than "rights". You know, the obligation to stop and wait at red lights, give peds the right of way, etc...

Dan

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 11:42:37 -0800

Not to deny that there's animosity between cars and bikes in Seattle, but I've been shot by someone in a car with a BB gun before. I was on foot and we were both more or less stationary so it didn't lodge in my lung or anything, but I also didn't come to the conclusion that I was targeted because of some car vs pedestrian gang war. I just happened to be there, which sounds like exactly what happened to this guy. Considering the damage done here, I'm assuming the guy and the car were traveling in opposite directions at a pretty good clip. How, exactly, does a traffic altercation escalate in that situation?

LisaPaige

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 11:24:46 -0800

I agree with elsathecat. Cyclists want to be treated like cars - yet many of them don't follow the same rules. If I as a driver behaved the way that some cyclists do (note I'm saying "some"), it would be a very scary thing. Just the other day I saw a cyclist practically mow down a pedestrian because the cyclist turned right into a crosswalk on a red light without stopping first. I've seen many more incidents like this. Clearly, both drivers and cyclists need to stay aware of their surroundings.

kasa

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 11:09:16 -0800

Rather off topic, but the above commenter brought it up... I am mainly a bus/ped commuter, and we need a hell of a lot more crosswalks in Seattle. Sure, most of Cap Hill and the UDistrict are pretty much covered (and yes, the jaywalking UW kids are complete assholes), but there are plenty of high traffic through streets in residential areas that are completely ignored. I've waited 15 minutes to cross 10th Ave E during rush hour. Um, word on the original post though.

elsathecat

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 11:04:28 -0800

I think a lot of the frustration on the part of drives comes from the fact that many cyclists refuse to follow the rules of the road. By that I mean they don’t stop at red lights, don’t yield to pedestrians, etc. If they followed the same rules drivers did, I think the level of hostility and frustration would markedly drop.

Lake City Sniper

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 10:54:09 -0800

Seattle needs to change the crosswalk law, I think it's the start of allot of this- having to stop so some drunk on Capitol Hill can cross the road. They should wait for breaks in traffic then go, I say change the law- and tear down the stop for me signs. ( except the one or two that say Stop For Me It's The Claw, lawn, pawn, etc...my fav was the lawn w/ astro turn glued up on the sign)