Seattle vs. Portland: Our Contributors Debate to the Death

So, you're pretty much arguing from a bullshit "feelings" perspective? That works well for blood and soil types, I suppose.

Admittedly, I used to think somewhat like you but my perspective is pretty much that of [6] these days. Also, you can't be serious with the "Portland just wants to be Portland" rhetoric - there's such a huge inferiority complex vis-a-vis Seattle down there. I've found Portlanders keep talking themselves up almost exclusively in reference to Seattle - when about the only actual things Portland is better at is machine politics and building (though not using) mass transit. Hell, your "Boston Red Sox" comment pretty much gives it away.

Also, you forgot to mention how crappy the CHINESE Garden is in Portland. Sure, the Seattle garden won't be done for years but the one in Portland is such an obvious rush job it isn't even funny. More sickly subtropical shrubs and trees, please! And the Japanese Garden is in a stunning location, it really isn't much better as a garden than the one in Seattle.

Having moved to Seattle from Atlanta two years ago after having been initially recruited to move to Portland, here's what I observed and noted:

Pros for Portland:

• Hip, yet small town feel

• Neato architecture

• Less traffic

• One hell of a huge city park (great for the quick escape from the city without ever leaving)

• Amazing public transportation system

• Everyone is a beer lover

• More affordable

• Feels more friendly and welcoming (obviously very subjective)

• Powell's (I never miss a chance to go there when in Portland)

Pros for Seattle:

• Surrounded by lakes, bays and sounds vs. a couple of rivers

• Much closer to more "real" mountains (biased here- I'm a big climber and hiker and nothing beats the N. Cascades)

• Great skyline

• Better economy / wealth of job opportunities

• Greater investment in the arts (admittedly due simply to scale)

• 3 pro teams vs. 1

• Good (still not great) dining choices

• Ferries rock!

• Fast catching up to Portland when it comes to microbrews

Anyway, both are great cities. In the end, it really boiled down to a few key things:

• Desire to move to a city with a truly strong, diverse economy (what do you do when you get tired of working at Nike-- you move to Seattle or L.A., right?)

• Proximity to the ocean and mountains-- endless entertainment

• Recognition that Seattle would ultimately offer more "things to do" because of its size

• Portland really no cheaper to live in, despite it's smaler size

So that's my two cents. I still love ya Portland. Heck, I might even move there one day. For now though, I'm happy here in Seattle.

well, and there's the fact that portland was there first.

I also have to agree that Seattle has much better parks. Portland's got more protected natural area parks, but in terms of preserving large swatches of green in an urban environment, places like Green Lake and Volunteer beat the pants off Portland's parks. And Golden Gardens is way beyond anything they have, though to be fair, that's as much geography as anything.

When you're visiting Powell's -- and you know you should be -- stop by Counter Media, about a block and a half away. It's everything an alternative media/smut shop should be, except seedy.

I think you are wrong on the parks front. I'm pretty sure Seattle has more parks than Portland and unlike Portland where I'm not sure where everyone goes to hang out there are always people of all ages in each one of our parks each and every day. Seriously,real cities have professional football teams. Portland is a nice place to visit though.

Don't tell me you still don't feel the sting of shame, too, Seth. "Cinderella Seahawks." And how about the '96 NBA Finals. The announcers practically gave the Sonics tutus. That was only 11 years ago. A blink of an eye in city-pride time.

Okay. Before Seattle in a lot of things, yes. Hell, them fine folks of Multnomah even went out and gave distinct growth lines, high five.

But even for all the ideas, the practice still comes up short. With a greater percentage of folks using only cars, 20% more boring white folks, a night life that doesn't exist outside of bars and strip clubs, PDX seems so great on paper but fails in reality.

I think it is only to be blamed on the River. It's a river town. If PDX had itself a protected bay, it probably would be over a million fine folks and some of the finer qualities that significant population brings.

And if there is to be a second blame, it is on the state it sits in. Considering the entire state has a population the size of Everett-Seattle-Bellevue-Tacoma area, it's just filled with people too poor to do what their liberal hearts want (re: education).

I DID forget to include Powell's and it IS wonderful. I think in the back of my mind I was thinking if I praised Powell's I'd be belittling Elliott Bay Book Co., which I love dearly.

But yes, obviously, you can't fuck with Powell's! Or Everyday Music (which, *hem & haw*, is better on Burnside than Broadway).

Jeremy M Barker, I was just about to say that.

I find it hard to believe that any Portland lover would miss the opportunity to promote Powell's Books, the greatest bookstore on Earth. It's huge, and has a phenomenal web presence which, knowing nothing more than I've read on Wikipedia, predates Seattle web-giant Amazon.com. Exciting stuff! People actually get married there. That's a little nutty. But Powell's really is a phenomenal place to just get lost. I have no idea how much money I've spent there...or how many hours I've spent freaking out and trying to decide which particularly volumes I should buy with my limited resources.

Dude, that was 23 years ago.

Portland does seem more nimble when it comes to city government, I gotta give you that. But that underdog stuff happens to Seattle too -- I still remember the "Cinderella Seahawks." *shudder*

I will put the Olmsted Legacy up against anything PDX has to offer, so don't even get me started. Don't. Even. Etc!