Pol to Sonics' Players: If You Stay, We'll Tax Ya

Well, I'm not against this bill if its the only means of building a basketball arena. But I am against the principle behind it. Tom says, " I think the people who want to build this stadium can afford to pitch in and help", as if the players are the ones who stand to benefit the most. This shows how out of touch he is with the sports business. He obviously doesn't understand the players will be paid anyway by someone and that most don't care where they play. If you're going to be anti-business, go hate on the owner, not his employees.

Will D.

Just as a point of historical reference, there was a time here in Seatown when there was in fact no fundamental difference between a baseball stadium and a basketball arena, namely during the 1980 - 1985 seasons, when ticket sales were so high games frequently had to be moved to the Kingdome to accomodate the overflow crowds.

Just sayin'.

And for the record, I think the "jock tax" sounds like a great idea. I'm sick-and-tired of my tax dollars being used to subsidize businesses owned by people who already have more money than they can spend. If the business owners can't pay their own way, then maybe they shouldn't be in business in the first place.

[8] Posted by: COMTE | February 8, 2007 12:20 PM

Seatown?? Come on--wasn't the city nickname thing addressed in another post? I'll have to check but I swear Seatown was discredited (at least in the comments) as the "-town" moniker was affiliated with Portland.

Substantively... the past is the past is the past, and 1985 was more than twenty years ago. Sure, that doesn't mean that your point about there not being a fundamental difference between the facilities isn't valid. But still, "frequently" moved more than twenty years ago is a pretty weak defense of the legislator's word-usage. I'm willing to bet he didn't have it in mind when he was speaking.

Regarding the public funds, I agree that sports business owners who can't pay their own way shouldn't be in business. I don't think I wrote otherwise. But that's not the point: I was just sayin' that the Jock Tax isn't the best way to go about getting a desired result (ie: not using public funds to construct sports viewing buildings).

If you assume that my argument about the Jock Tax ultimately works out, what are you left with? Even if it's a 100% privately-funded sports entertainment plaza, when the team leaves the place is empty (and ALL of the rest of the tax revenue goes away, too).

So, to sum up: public funds for sports conglomerates bad. Player-specific (or any individual career-choie) tax also bad. Arena for baseketball good. Stadium for basketball, bad (unless 1985 happens again). Wolf Spiders, terrifying.

Well, three hundred years ago there were people who didn't think public access highways and public schooling were "universal societal goods." In the 10's, government started funding things like parks and food inspectors and hospitals and things. In the 40's it started funding jobs programs and Social Security and welfare. It was in the 60's, with LBJ's Great Society program, that things like arts first started getting funding, and I guess sports goes along with that...I guess it's a question of how far you want to roll back the clock.

Stupid paper tiger arguments from dumbs like Seth.

Again, public access highways and schooling are demonstrably more or less universal societal goods. Pet projects and bread and circus are not.

Interesting. Carmen reveals that she must have been hit in the head with the dodgeball a few too many times in P.E. with her feebleminded equation of fire and police departments with sports arenas.

Let me make it very simple for you to understand: the fire department is a general public good. A basketball arena is not, and in fact is to many citizens' detriment. They do not equate, and your argument makes no sense.

That it's "just a few bucks" is another specious argument. Similarly, it would be an even less noticeable hardship for the average Seattleite to set aside just one dollar every year to be put in the "fill JokerTellsTheTruth's wallet with small denomination bills" superfund, but it's at least not entirely obvious that Seattle should set up such a tax.

Really, your best argument is the implicit one that we need to find a better way to fund our educational system.

Yeah, I don't think the "I don't use it so I shouldn't have to pay for it" system is very feasible. I guess we could go back to toll roads and eliminate the public schools, but I'm rather enjoying living in the centuries after the 18th.

Wow, such bitterness. JokerTellsTheTruth must have been picked last for the kickball team in P.E. one too many times.

I'd also wager that we all pay more taxes (as in, a larger percentage of our income) for frivolities like fire and police departments than for sports facilities. My point being, why so much whining about a few bucks? If you don't like major league sports and the "subsidies" they get, move to a place that doesn't have them. Like Boise.

"If enacted, it would force our professional teams to pay players more than other teams, and would have the effect of increasing ticket prices..."

And this is a bad thing how, exactly? I don't give a fuck about basketball, or football, or any of the rest of this. I will not be going to see any games. I will be negatively affected by the traffic of those who are. So, why, exactly, should I be taxed to subsidize this shit?

If you care, you should be paying for it, and those of us who don't should not be. Sports teams are not a positive enhancement to any part of Seattle that I care about.

Will D.

Just as a point of historical reference, there was a time here in Seatown when there was in fact no fundamental difference between a baseball stadium and a basketball arena, namely during the 1980 - 1985 seasons, when ticket sales were so high games frequently had to be moved to the Kingdome to accomodate the overflow crowds.

Just sayin'.

And for the record, I think the "jock tax" sounds like a great idea. I'm sick-and-tired of my tax dollars being used to subsidize businesses owned by people who already have more money than they can spend. If the business owners can't pay their own way, then maybe they shouldn't be in business in the first place.

Yeah--the Bucks got the worst of both worlds on that trade. I went to a Sonics/Bucks game with my Dad in like 1990 and remember being amazed that the Bucks had an all-white lineup. I believe that Jack Sikma and Fred Roberts were involved.

Seth - I guess my perspective comes as a Bucks fan, where that trade was a train wreck.

A. Isn't there a fundamental difference between a football or baseball "stadium" and a basketball "arena"? Are we going to get 60,000 people to show up (outdoors) to watch the Sonics play in a stadium? No. Is that pedantic of me?

B. A jock-tax is also one of the main proposed revenue-generators for the Portland baseball arena, I mean stadium, that is not going to get built anytime soon. What future-Gary Payton is going to want to go to a city that has a special tax just for him? What kind of sense does that make? Having a special tax is not the kind of special attention diva-atheletes get off on.

Okay, sure, guys who are just happy to be there are going to be happy to be there... but Willie Bloomquist and his basketball counterpart are not going to win championships. So the team will suck. Attendance will therefore be low. The team will complain about not getting community support... and then they'll move.

So for these reasons, the jock-tax sucks. Wolf Spiders ruleth the land.

On paper--great trade. In reality--terrible trade.

Payton was our guy--2nd pick in the draft, first legit superstar in team history. He should've stayed a Sonic, retired a Sonic. Gone into the Hall of Fame having only been a Sonic. That's what classy franchises do. They take care of their best players, even if it hurts in the short term. You didn't the Celtics lowballing Larry Bird, they let him play out the string with his terrible back, getting as much money has he wanted, until HE was ready to hang it up.

Starbucks supposedly makes money by giving customers what they want, but in this case the Sonics made a dippy decision that took away the team's leader and left the franchise with Allen who--is, without a doubt, a terrific player, but he'll never be a Sonic the way Payton was because Allen started with another team. Of course, soon, no-one will be a Sonic. And that's ultimately how you know getting rid of Payton was a bad decision.

I thought you were being generous when suggesting the school system here teaches where Alberta is. They certainly don't teach people where, for instance, New Brunswick or Newfoundland is.

Can someone explain how getting Jesus Shuttleworth was a bad trade? I personally finding myself hating the sonics more for their propensity to draft really tall people who've never played and the utter lack of defense.

Unless Rodney Tom introduces a bill that would extend the existing King County tax on hotels/restaurants/rental cars and directs that revenue towards education funding, then he is just another jackass politician who gets off seeing his name in the paper.

I already pay this tax, so I don't care if it's extended so we can build an arena.

For the opponents who claim the money should be better spent somewhere else, that's fine, do it. I'd probably agree to that too. I have yet to see a single opponent suggest extending the tax to improve other government services.