Seattlest: Seattlest Interviews an Anti-Lap-Dance Stripper

Becky

Fri, 18 May 2007 08:38:32 -0800

Strip clubs are for sad little men who can't get it elsewhere - the only reason you're all so angry with this stripper saying she dislikes it is because it pains you to think she may only be PRETENDING that you make her horny - I know any number of women who are fair sexier than your averge stripper who would do dirty things for their man! Ask - but don't be so arrogant as to think paying for it makes it real....

Steve Ragle

Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:23:39 -0800

Unbelievable. And if you don't like the customers (not johns), perhaps you should find another. Many of us who go to strip clubs just want a break and stippers who smerk and are mean and don't they want to talk to us, we don't want to see either. And very, very few of the customers don't try to break the rules and in reality if a guy stuck his fingers in you, all you would have to do it raise your hand and he would literally be out on his head. Do don't try to bolter your weak points with outright lies. Sounds like you would be a good, fat housewife who pays no attention to their husband and rides around in the walmart electic wheel chairs. Again, we are not johns, just looking for a break and paying well for a few minutes of fantasy. And your type just takes it away.

globwatch

Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:16:32 -0800

Christmas on the Net http://globwatch.info

Jesse Barker

Sun, 17 Dec 2006 16:40:17 -0800

Thank you Annika. Many of these posts are just ringing with misogyny. I, for one, actually FEEL for women because GENERALLY they have far less opportunities for well-paid employment than men. Anyone who argues agaisnt this clearly does not read enough (go to www.un.org/womenwatch and read the myriad of stats and reports put out by international groups about women and economics) or understand how the world actually works (it is not the ideal free-market wonderland than many of you seem to be under the delusion it is!) Women choose to strip for a number of reasons, but #1 seems to be: the ca$h. If women could be paid better for all the OTHER menial (but less sexually explicit) jobs they do (like cleaning, factory work, reception) then perhaps there wouldn't be such a huge percentage of women choosing to strip and being exploited, assaulted and miserable. The problem is bigger than the stripping industry. The many unhappy strippers who have posted here are reflective of a wider problem that people are too hesitant to admit these days: women are still treated as being second best to men in many areas of public and private life. (Again, if you disagree, check out the website and read some statistics) That's not to say men don't have their own struggles and suffer their own disadvantages because of their gender - for example, emotional retardation is just one problem shared by many men around the world. Many that have posted here seem to be forgetting that men are economically better off than women in most Western (and non-Western) states. Often this is not through any one person's 'fault' but is a result of entrenched socio-economic disadvantage. Most strippers, it seems, complain about their job because they have to endure working conditions worse than any of these narrow-minded, opinionted, misoginistic heartless posters above would ever have to deal with. In light of all this, it seems only fair that those employees in one of the highest-paying employment sectors available for women should be able to demand better working conditions! Right?

Annika

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 08:47:27 -0800

Could all you people who has never been through the shit life of being a stripper just shut up! I was a stripper for 6 years. I retired 2 years ago, made my money, invested it wisely and thought I was ready to live again. The truth is you don't really live after that experience. I trust no-one and I have lost any motivation to interact with people. Sometimes I want to go back to stripping because at least then I felt that I had a valid reason for my misery. I feel as alienated from the world today as I did when I was in the biz. Can I just say that I never drank or used drugs while working and nevertheless I agree with everything this woman is saying. Somebody in these comments said: "there is support you know?" Bulshit. Unless you have been through it your understanding is soooo limited and I don't know too many therapists advertising being ex-strippers. All you people putting this woman down are just pissed off that somebody had the guts to tell the truth. It is interesting that any stripper commenting on this girl agrees with her while all the ignorant opinionated fuckers who don't know shit about what it is like put her down.

Julie

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 17:41:11 -0800

I stripped for 3 years, started at age 38!! Was DYNAMITE to look at, even more popular once the men found out I was aged like them. I didn't like lap dances because the men were pigs, so I stopped doing them. I didn't like getting too close to the men because most of them didn't like following a simple rule. I stopped earning any real money and had to accept that. No one FORCED me to get naked. If I didn't want to take all my clothes off, there were clubs that wouldn't penalize you for failing to take off the last bit of modesty I possessed, particularly when the crowds were thin and/or not real exuberant. Found out for real that a strip club is a place for hookers to ply their trade and not have to pay any 'overhead' other than a house-fee for using the facility to be a dancer, and not get caught. That ended my career. Stripping isn't what it used to be and girls coming into this trade need to know that all the glamour is gone - quit expecting it. If this girl earns $100-300 an hour to dance, she's doing more than dancing, and she's failing to see where she is failing HERSELF. Sheesh, the biggest sluts I knew in the business weren't making that kind of money out-and-out fucking their customers in the champagne rooms. Get over yourself, sweetie! Good lookin' women are a dime a dozen, and getting better looking all the time. Instead of becoming washed up, wash the makeup off your face, and go back to school. The government will pay better than half the cost, free, and the remainder will be payable over a long, long time. Mine will be 80 a month, not bad for suddenly coming into $15/hr to start, for sitting at a computer, dressed, 40 hours a week.

Hedley

Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:25:19 -0800

miarech, you don't seem to get it. The supposed interview you read is not authentic, and there is no 'her'. Nobody told anybody to quit their job. Everyone suggests weighing the balance that exists between having work and income vs. what you don't like about that work, and then leaving that sort of profession if the balance isn't suitable to you. Such a woman can say whatever she wants to whomever she wants, but she employs herself so her complaints have no basis. If you are being harrassed in your workplace, and you complain, then the employer is responsible to see to it that your complaints are addressed and that the harrassment stops. She is her own employer, and as such, when getting paid for work that entails what most would already call sexual harrassment, she does not have anyone responsible for listening to her complaints or for doing a darn thing about them. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

miarech

Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:33:38 -0800

Wow, I can't believe all these comments! So, most of the comments seem to say this: if you don't like your job, quit. Now this is ridiculous!!! How many of you love your job 100%? I bet not many, yet you stay on for whatever reasons. Now she has a right to complain about certain things she doesn't like about her job, and she's doing something positive about it--she's telling men to stop groping her. It's a fair complaint--she's a stripper, not a prostitute, and I don't see anything wrong with her saying "look, don't expect me to do these things," which is akin to negotiating about details of a job. So stop all the bitching and harassing and start listening, people!

Hedley

Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:59:21 -0800

fusskins, please pay attention: A Stripper is usually her own employer... but thanks for heaping even more responsibility on her than what is grinding in someone's lap to support her cocaine habit and her unemployed boyfriend. Maybe this is the sound of society exacting some sort of balance on those who won the genetic lottery. Yet unlike the situations of many of the other misfortunate among our society, all of the needed cures for such a stripper are entirely within her own capabilities for standards and behavior modification. Perhaps if law enforcement (police, and these same government leaders who tried to pass this absurd rule) would do a better job of choking the cocaine, meth, and other illicit drug supply, then we wouldn't have so many strippers entirely happy to break our laws entirely by choice.

fusskins

Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:36:17 -0800

I didn't know when a woman became a stripper she gave up her right to be treated like a human being and have her employer to protect her health and safety on the job. Thanks for clearing that one up, guys!

Arvind Devon

Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:40:07 -0800

makes no sense to me. I gotta wonder why their self-employed then. Lots of construction workers that I know are self-employed too. Doesn't make it right you know. If it's the problems with the workplace it should be the club owners responsbilty. I've been to enough clubs to know that the girls there appreciate decent guys (ha ha a point maybe renegade agrees with ;)). Even the bartenders will give us some free drinks sometimes. It's simple plan, treat a chick right and she will treat you right. Fat ugly guys like us just get a little luckier when we're nicer, and I'm sure it would work for some of you guys too. Guys acting like shmucks makes it worse for everyone.

Hedley

Sun, 19 Nov 2006 18:41:25 -0800

Lipgloss, wake up, there is no woman. The interview is not authentic. Arvind, wake up, these people are self employed, and thus they are responsible to themselves if sexual harassment is happening in their work place. That makes your analogy the one that is way off base. I have to admit that the four-foot-rule would certainly achieve making strippers safer in the workplace, if that's all you want to do, but nobody will be there including, eventually, the strippers themselves.

Arvind Devon

Sun, 19 Nov 2006 18:25:33 -0800

What's your point renegade? you sound like all the ingrates on this thread who don't deserve the fine women they encounter. You sound way more bitter than the woman up there, that is fo sure.

RenegadeEvolution

Sat, 18 Nov 2006 19:30:10 -0800

Christ...no woman, no matter her job DESERVES or is ASKING for it. In a perfect world every woman, no matter her job, would be safe and not get degraded, but that world is NOT this one and bad/demoralizing things happen to people here. Strippers SHOULD have safer conditions and clubs SHOULD have rules that are enforced but that is NOT the way it is in a lot of these places. And as shitty as it is, oddly enough, the women working there KNOW that. The anonymous stripper quoted here said as much...something along the lines of her boss telling her if she did not like it, she could get out? You don't get a much more blatant version of "bad things may happen to you in this line of work" now, do you? Should it be that way? Fuck no. Is it? Yes. You don't SEE me saying the 4 foot rule should NOT be enforced, do you? No. I think it would be a spiffy, wonderful idea...but until such things are the standard, dancers are going to have bad nights and put up with bullshit in order to earn their money. And that is just the truth.

Lipgloss

Sat, 18 Nov 2006 16:26:01 -0800

I fail to see how so many people can spout such a load of venom at this woman whilst completely failing to address the real issue at hand - how strip clubs can be made safer for the girls who work there. Just because a woman is selling her body does not mean that she isn't entitlted to protection of her health and safety just as she would be in any other profession! What the hell is wrong with you people??

Snowflake

Sat, 18 Nov 2006 14:36:25 -0800

The law protecting women doesn't matter in this case. The managers look over 'minor offences' (you know like biting, kicking, punching, raping and inserting objects) in this case so that they can make a nice profit. So neither the law nor women matter in this case. Renegade Evolution very pointedly sums up that 'women who enter stripping are just ASKING for it'. It's not that women are told that they have rights, that these rights are supposed to be honoured, it's that women are stupid and should EXPECT on the job harassment. I can't imagine anywhere else where such blatant sexual harassment happens to so-called "Business women".

sara

Sat, 18 Nov 2006 11:19:18 -0800

Why isn't the law protecting women?

sara

Sat, 18 Nov 2006 11:13:18 -0800

The whole point is about enforcing the four foot rule. Obviously many strippers don't want to be handled- or they would be prostitutes. Therefore, they should unionise and demand the rights that men are constantly denying them. We're NOT objects, so for all you sad men out there that go to these shit-holes, please try and rememeber that women are NOT cumbags. Where there are rules, stick to them. Only stippers should be aloud to vote on this, NOT the desperate and sleazy men!!!!

ArvindDevon

Sat, 18 Nov 2006 08:06:30 -0800

Renegade you sound more like a prostitute than a stripper. You probably do hoe work on, so you are probly more used to that kind of treatment. I know when I do treat prozzies right I get a little more luvin than if I treat them like some guys do. I don't think strippers really deserve that treatment cause I don't think that's in there job descriptian.

ArvindDevon

Sat, 18 Nov 2006 08:01:18 -0800

I don't think your analogy is apt Renegade Evolution. I think it's more like this: Johnny: You know at work the other day the anvil hit me on my head when I was laying the foundation of the building. Dave: Johnny, You should talk to your manager about that. Johnny: I did. I told him there was something wrong with the way we were making houses, cause this happens every time and I'm worried one of these days I'm going to be even more injured than before. This time, I managed to escape with just a bruise on my arm. The anvils are supposed to be removed before I start laying the bricks. Dave: Why don't you just STFU. If you have a problem with your job - you shouldn't have signed up for it in the first place you dumb lower-class moron, you make $40 an hour stop whining about it. That's more than most of us make at entry level management positions and all you've got is a highschool diploma. NOW either you face this like a real man or you get another job you piece of sh*t.

RenegadeEvolution

Sat, 18 Nov 2006 02:42:49 -0800

Avind: And its the nice ones we do appreciate. But not ALL of us got a shit deal in life. Some of us ARE business women. You do not sign on for being a fire fighter and think you might never get burned. You do not sign on to be a stripper and think you might never get degraded /groped/pissed off. And since you are not a stripper, I cannot express to you how ANNOYING the 'poor victim girl' image is to those of us who are not. I like my job, and not just for the money, and I feel for women who hate it and want out. But thanks to the moral hang ups of society, you cannot be a stripper and expect to be respected. If you need FURTHER proof of that, re-read some of the comments here.

ArvindDevon

Fri, 17 Nov 2006 21:36:37 -0800

Renegade Evolution you make it sound like all the women who take up stripping are gold-digging hoes. The ones that I've met are pretty damn nice women, but got the raw deal in life. Like babies and jerky boyfriends. It's sad, but I like to help them out anyway I can. I just know I can't ever get any of them though, it's a reality about many of us johns. The only way I get any is if I pay, and over the years I've just learned to be nice about it.

ArvindDevon

Fri, 17 Nov 2006 21:17:32 -0800

People, people, people she's not talking just about STRIPPING. Have none of you EVER heard about SEXUAL FREAKING HARASSMENT? Every single comment here is about how this woman is a stripper and should EXPECT men to behave in such a disgusting manner towards them. IF SHE WANTED TO BE PHYSICALLY VIOLATED, MAYBE SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN A PROSTITUTE. Obiviously, she DOESN'T want to be PHYSICALLY ASSAULTED so she is a stripper. See the difference "prostitute" vs. "stripper". I've known both in my days and there is a huge difference. Now there are two parts here 1) the customers are johns in either case (i.e. you pay for sexual arousal - you're a john. Not all johns have 'intercourse', but they still pay a prozzie). I've been to a prozzie and just asked for a hand-job, so it's not the same. 2) the occupations though they involve the sex industry are DIFFERENT. So, if Ms. Stripperella here wanted to have objects rammed into her anus, she'd go into prostitution or pornography or BDSM. Obviously, Ms. Stripperella is not saying that. She's saying, she wants FAIR WORK POLICY. And let's face it - there are some fairly shady deals going on here. I think both her objections and her comments are consistent. She's just demanding fair treatment from the men that pay her to strip NOT to treat her like shit. I mean - seems to me that's fairly sound. She didn't sign up for prozzie work - she signed up to just take her clothes off. unless of course y'all got something against nudity. Either you appreciate the favor your getting and treat the woman doing this shit with respect, or you pay a prozzie (and still treat her with respect). It's like kicking your mechanic every time you go in to get your car fixed and he hands you a quote. From what I know, that's illegal. I think nekkid chicks are hot, that's why I think I ought to treat em with respect. I'd only do something to a chick if she asked me, from what I get from this woman's article she didn't sign up for any lynching. BTW: Your comments policy is hypocritical: [b]• Good comments can disagree with the content in the post, but they never insult the writer of the post, other commenters, Gothamist, other websites, etc. [/b] Everyone on this thread has been insulting this woman by saying she is a wench, a piker, a bitch, a whore. What's going on here? when me and my buds go to a club we treat them fine ass ladies with respect.

RenegadeEvolution

Fri, 17 Nov 2006 11:55:49 -0800

Tee: Then don't buy it. No one is forcing you to.

tee

Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:32:45 -0800

RenegadeEvolution? What you're selling sounds more like SubmissionTradition.

RenegadeEvolution

Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:09:03 -0800

I really only read about half of these comments, as many of them were more or less saying the same thing, repeatedly. I'm a stripper. The money is good. I was not molested, beat up, or otherwise tormented by a family member or boyrfriend or any such thing. Oddly enough, I can manage to get out of bed and look at myself in the morning and go to work without being on drugs. Wow, I even went to college. Many women are in stripping and every other aspect of the sex industry for all the wrong reasons and would really rather not be there. I wish they weren't. I think realistically everyone knows that. Some women make a free and logical choice to do it and actually enjoy the work, or weigh the monitary compensation against the 'cons' and decide to do it anyway. Fact is, you take off your clothes for living, be you male or female, people are going to, often, treat you like shit, judge you, and assume anything bad that happens to you you brought on yourself, which is bullshit, but you know that going in. You know there are going to be assholes who try to bend the rules and get away with it. You know a lot of nights are going to be all swine & roses. But you go anyway, because yeah, there are not a lot of other jobs where a person (male or female) can make 1500$ + a night. But there are other options, and you can choose to take the pay cut and get out, get help for whatever problems you have, or you can stay and hate it. Most women working in this business in the States do have other options... and if they hate the job so much, they should ponder taking them, even if it does put a hurting on their budget. I also know how much everything I said is going to piss off a lot of women, but it is true. Sometimes, other people and the world in general are not going to cut you some slack or cut you a break, so you have to do it for yourself, even if it is not easy.

Hedley

Thu, 16 Nov 2006 05:47:20 -0800

Al, wake up, buddy. You may very well have interviewed strippers years ago and found them saying the same things, but my point, all along, has been that this particular interview is not authentic and is not current. You may very well have interviewed strippers years ago and heard them speak of one unionized strip club out of 10,000+, but no such place exists in the present. Why is this so difficult to understand for someone who suggests that he/she has interviewed countless strippers? And what was the stupid reference to a "Hedley Lamar"? I think your lack of familiarity with society, or show biz, parallels your lack of familiarity with strippers. Now please, just tell us what stripper in the present is citing an operational unionized strip club?

Amber

Wed, 15 Nov 2006 23:51:09 -0800

Plenty of strippers use the money they earn to go through college. Many of them make it, but even after they leave stripping have PTSD to deal with. Also they have a disgust for men that beats all. I can't imagine where they would get that. (being ironic, just so you know.) As for the whole "get over your sexual abuse", that's a trifle callous, isn't it? For someone who wasn't sexually abused to say that is really insensitive. Overcome your panic attacks and your self-medication, your depression and anxiety, your dissociative disorders? Tell that to a vet who suffers from the same things and see what he does. Just tell him to get over it and get on with his life. Tell him to pull himself together and forget it ever happened. I'd be surprised if you didn't lose some teeth. Did you know why strippers usually don't leave the club without someone else along? It's because they attract stalkers. You can go on and on about how respectful and safe the clientele of these places are, but if they really were, why would these women be afraid of them? Older strippers tell the newer ones how to avoid the creepy wackos, and that pretty much means telling them that no matter how nice a guy can seem in the club, don't buy it. If a new girl is stupid, she'll give out her number or go home with someone. Usually they don't do that twice. Some of them don't do it twice because they didn't survive the first time. According to the law, they're considered prostitutes, and prostitutes' rights don't really count. After all, they "chose" this life for themselves and should be prepared to forfeit any expectation of protection or justice. Ask any cop. Yeah, that's respect.

Wondering

Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:21:35 -0800

Please explain to me in small words why strippers can't take the money they earn from the job they hate and use it to get trained/educated to do something better? Plenty of other poor people who were abused as kids work their way up thru life.

Al

Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:48:39 -0800

Okay pun’kin, deep cleansing breath, and release. You’ll feel better I promise. I know it’s hard to hear that a cherished activity has a seamy underside, but you’ll be alright. Sadly I can’t say the same for all others involved. Remember how well you recovered from learning that Santa wasn’t real? This too shall pass. We all have to grow up sometime. I don’t recall ignoring any strippers I spoke to before, and I can pretty much guarantee that I’ve spoken to more than you, even if you are an active exploiter… but I digress. Now, enough of your double speak. “The proposed solution in question is to eliminate lap dances entirely, which will do nothing whatsoever to help her or any other stripper's financial situation, but actively remove one more option for her to make money.” Sweet of you to suddenly develop concern for this woman’s financial well being. As for the active removal of earning potential, this hasn’t happened anywhere where such laws have been put into place. It does however, greatly reduce the amount of physical and sexual assault experienced by strippers. For clients who find themselves unable to control their actions, physical boundaries prevent them from ‘forgetting’. Bouncers and security guards also find their work easier since such boundaries are more obvious. By putting such guidelines in place, women no longer feel obligated to push the limits in order to earn more money (strip joints thrive on creating such competition among entertainers, even club owners and managers will agree.). Everyone stays safe this way (relatively speaking). “if the conditions she is working under are already illegal, then the existing laws should be enforced” Last I checked it was still illegal to physically assault someone (or maybe this law only applies to certain women?). What happened to this woman during a lap dance was an assault, she complained, and saw no recourse. Prime example of how existing laws are not enforced, and how further abuse of this type is encouraged through activities such as lap dances. Should you be interested in further research regarding minimum wage, the pink ghetto, gendered labour, and systematic discrimination, I will happily recommend some readings for you. If you are more interested in understanding the long term effects of childhood sexual abuse, or the inordinately high number of victims of sexual abuse involved in the sex industry, there is plenty of information out there, however I would gladly make recommendations on these topics as well. If you are merely interested in shooting your mouth off on a topic you barely understand, well you’ve done a bang up job thus far! … Women in this study consistently connected lap dances to the sexual abuse they suffered in the club. "That’s the first thing men try to do when they get close to you and always in a lap dance." (Holsopple 1998) Most strippers, as with other women who work in the sex industry, are adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. Research indicates the number is between 60%-80%. One study found that 35% of strippers have Multiple Personality Disorder, 55% had Borderline Personality Disorder, and 60% had Major Depressive Episodes Seriously trolls, this is your last feeding from me!

asdfjkl

Wed, 15 Nov 2006 14:25:54 -0800

Wow. Made you eat your words in a matter of hours. Read both of those statements again, sloooowly, and figure out where you went wrong. ... ah, OK, you'll almost certainly miss it, so I'll give you a hint: "demand" is not the same as "make". No, in many cases they cannot. It is quite clear in the interview the woman’s attempts to complain about a john mistreating her were dismissed. You also seem blissfully unaware of the many work place obligations that some strippers are under (some quasi-legitimate, some entirely illegal). First, if the conditions she is working under are already illegal, then the existing laws should be enforced; this isn't an argument for bringing on new ones. Second, all these arguments do nothing to support the cause of the referendum. This stripper hates lap dances, but does them for the money. You maintain that she is exploited and is forced into this job by the need for cash (as are all other strippers, except for the ones who aren't that you'll choose to ignore, but never mind that). The proposed solution in question is to eliminate lap dances entirely, which will do nothing whatsoever to help her or any other stripper's financial situation, but actively remove one more option for her to make money. Great! Now she can just make less pay at another strip club like LL, or take that shit job you insist won't pay the bills instead. Now explain to me please how this poor abused woman who was FORCED, I tell you, FORCED into the stripping biz by a cruel, cruel society that offered her no other means to make a living will suddenly have an improvement in her condition by having the potential choice to make that living removed?

Al

Wed, 15 Nov 2006 13:33:34 -0800

“The whole flaw in her argument is this notion that we all think men "have a right to make naked women sit on your lap". Wrong. We think adults ought to have a right to pay other consenting adults to sit on our laps.” Posted by: asdfjkl | November 14, 2006 4:24 PM “Basically you not only do feel that you as a man have a right to demand that women sit naked on your lap Yes, I do” Posted by: asdfjkl | November 15, 2006 10:10 AM Wow. Made you eat your words in a matter of hours. “They can say "No, I will not take your money, and I will not give you a lapdance." No, in many cases they cannot. It is quite clear in the interview the woman’s attempts to complain about a john mistreating her were dismissed. You also seem blissfully unaware of the many work place obligations that some strippers are under (some quasi-legitimate, some entirely illegal). “Being poor does not remove from them their capacity to make such decisions” No, nor however, does it excuse those who are in a better position socially and economically, from exploiting women (and others) because they have the money and desire to do so. While poverty does not keep them from making decisions, the reality is it prevents people from being able to carry such decisions out. And now moving on to Hedley (Hedley Lamar? Doubtful somehow) “I never said that the interview didn't exist. I merely pointed out the obvious, that it isn't an authentic interview with a stripper done in the present.” Having worked for two years (2003-2005) on a research project about women in the adult entertainment industry, and having conducted numerous interviews and focus groups with these women myself, I found this interview to have much in common with what the women I spoke to had to say about their working conditions, the factors that lead to their working in strip clubs, and their interactions with johns. There is nothing I found in this interview that hadn’t been said to me by the women I interviewed. Funny how many posts argue that men are excused from taking responsibility for their actions within a strip club (the baked bread argument, the ‘but she nibbled on my ear’ argument) which stem from a desire (warped though it may be), whereas women are expected to take full responsibility for ‘being held at dollar point’, in addition to men’s actions based on their desires, etc and so forth. Oh wait, not funny, sad and hypocritical. http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/stripc1.htm 1998 http://www.peers.bc.ca/images/DispMythsshort.pdf 2001 http://blogblahblah.wordpress.com/2006/03/29/debunking-the-myths-from-the-darkside-of-porn/ non-academic, easily accessible review And I’m spent. Here’s hoping this is the last time I cast pearls before swine.

Hedley

Wed, 15 Nov 2006 11:41:32 -0800

I never said that the interview didn't exist. I merely pointed out the obvious, that it isn't an authentic interview with a stripper done in the present. There still seem to be numerous readers who can't even deduce that same reality. The bottom line is, all of these people here protesting the rights or wrongs of a strip club have no apparent qualms about supporting a government which tried to disguise "freedom of speech" behind a battle for eight parking places! LOL - someone here actually suggested that I worked at a strip club? (in some ways that would be sort of intriguing [in the male role at a female-stripping club, I mean] ) The truth is that I might get to a strip club of any sort an average of three times per year. I'm probably at "two" by this point of 2006. At least the only sensible outcome prevailed on election day, and now the city council morons have to stew in their own poorly-orchestrated effort to keep one business in the entire city from getting eight desired parking spots.

asdfjkl

Wed, 15 Nov 2006 10:10:40 -0800

Where is the consent if you have to pay them? They can say "No, I will not take your money, and I will not give you a lapdance." Few jobs that women can enter with a low level of education pay enough to live on (please, look it up before commenting). Basically think about it as a form of economic and social extortion. If you're going to claim that this woman faces no possible life other than starvation and homeless if she doesn't strip, then I call BS. Shit jobs do exist which could she could take to pay the bills. Is every poor individual exempt from any responsibility whatsoever for what they do with their lives because they need money? Plenty of people out there have shit jobs and could make a lot more money by, say, being a drug mule. They choose not to be, because they would consider that a profoundly bad idea. Being poor does not remove from them their capacity to make such decisions. As for adults, she began when she was 16 (after being abused since 13). The strip club in question broke the law by letting her strip at that age. That's already illegal, and tangential to the issue of whether stripping is inherently degrading for consenting adults. So, how do you spin dire economic need and childhood abuse into consent? How do you spin this woman's past into a means of relieving her of all responsibility for any decisions she makes in perpetuity? Basically you not only do feel that you as a man have a right to demand that women sit naked on your lap Yes, I do. And I feel that those women have a right to tell me to get lost. It's a right that the absence of this proposed law will not stop them from exercising.

Al

Wed, 15 Nov 2006 02:24:45 -0800

Fascinating or cowardly? Seriously though, barbs aside, why did you wait until there were coherent, reasoned, and compassionate responses posted after the most horrific hate speech was spewed across this comment section (for close to five days)? Seems to me that anything vile that could have been said about the interviewee (and strippers in general) has been said, leaving room for more informed (and civil) comments. Although it was funny when Hedley tried to convince James that the interview did not exist...

Pony

Wed, 15 Nov 2006 00:07:43 -0800

Fascinating how you wait until a woman comes on calling these shitheads what they are before you're all overcome with delicacy there mein host.

Al

Tue, 14 Nov 2006 22:46:17 -0800

"We think adults ought to have a right to pay other consenting adults to sit on our laps" Where is the consent if you have to pay them? Few jobs that women can enter with a low level of education pay enough to live on (please, look it up before commenting). Basically think about it as a form of economic and social extortion. As for adults, she began when she was 16 (after being abused since 13). So, how do you spin dire economic need and childhood abuse into consent? You must be awfully dizzy. Basically you not only do feel that you as a man have a right to demand that women sit naked on your lap, you expect them to take responsibility for your actions, responsibility for the actions of all men (especially their abusers and those who exploit them), and you expect them to pretend to like it. p.s. don't quit your day job

Dan

Tue, 14 Nov 2006 22:18:23 -0800

Guys, I know it's way late in the game for this and seems particularly lame now that some opposing viewpoints have showed up, but can we please be more civil to the interviewer, interviewee and particularly other commenters? If not I'll have to close the comments here.

Pony

Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:34:30 -0800

Hedley--talk about a ringer dude. What's your job at the joint you say you patronize oh limp dicked one? Could you be any more obvious. This lady speaks truth. I've pretty much been there and she's not even half telling all she could. Where do you think a woman with her background is going to get an office job? Where's a woman who was raped by grampy going to get self-esteem? And whoa some cv she's got there just what they're looking for at Ford et al. And when she's got that $7.50 an hour so noble position it'll be same old same old, with the manager wanting up her skirt or threatening her. Yes been there too. You're in sales Michael? Then you know it: you're both whores where do you get off coming down on her? The point asdick or whatever, is that what you want is pathetic, disgusting and just plain wrong. She could leave yah, but one girl getting out and another couple dozen raped kiddies grown to know exactly what they are lining up to take her place doesn't suddenly make you a decent person. You're still sitting there, sticky fingered evidence of your inability to do anything but be a jerk off.

asdfjkl

Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:24:30 -0800

This woman is amazing. If I had a job to give her, I would do it this minute. Indeed, it'd be great if you could, since we wouldn't have to hear about how horribly oppressed she is because she chooses a insanely well-paying job she finds demeaning over a "legitimate" lower-paying one that those poor plain girls have to settle for. As you said ... given a choice between two shit jobs, she's opted for the one that at least pays better. Indeed. And that was her choice - the same kind of choice millions of us make, every day. Perhaps I could whore myself out as a male prostitute and make many times what I make now, but I don't, because I'd find that horribly unappealing. If I did, I wouldn't expect an outpouring of sympathy when I moan about how demeaning it is. The whole flaw in her argument is this notion that we all think men "have a right to make naked women sit on your lap". Wrong. We think adults ought to have a right to pay other consenting adults to sit on our laps. She is consenting to this, and could readily say "no", but doesn't want to because the money is too tempting.

Al

Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:35:00 -0800

Ugh. I should be doing homework, but I can’t let this slide… “I don't think there's anything more obnoxious than a self entitled stripper with a victim complex.” Sam You are not entitled to treat another human being like shit because it turns you on. There is nothing more obnoxious (and destructive) than self entitled men who pay to further exploit victims of abuse (seriously, check the stats on this before you comment boys). Seek professional help asshat. “Horny men go to strip clubs in order to be titillated by attractive women.” Orientis No, nice try though (if by try I mean half assed attempt to justify your own perversion) Horny men go to strip clubs to exert power over women. Seriously, men are easy, it doesn’t take degrading costumes, bad music, and dead eyed women writhing to get men going. If it was about being turned on or sex, these men would just go have sex. In reality it is about avoiding emotional interaction (a one night stand seems to be too much for these asshats), having to worry about satisfaction being mutual (easier to throw a wad of bills than admit you have no skill), and pretending they are superior. And attractive women? Haven’t close to half the posting here commented on how nasty these women look? Make up your minds! “…you seem to be educated, and highly intelligent. in all honesty, you seem like you could do anything!” Rob Michaels Alright, you do seem to quasi-encouraging (underneath your condescension that it); however, do the words “hard to study with Poppy's dick in me afterschool. GEDs are shit” and “I began stripping at 16” ring a bell? Intelligent yes, educated, sadly no. Reading comprehension is a virtue people! “No other job that only requires a pulse and proof of age will pay her that well.” CryMeARiver To reiterate, the article clearly states “I began stripping at 16”. Is there some way to keep people from commenting if they have not even read the interview? “There are modeling agencies that pay rather well, which require no "hands on" experiences as in a club environment. Perhaps an acting career? The Ring Girl job in boxing? A career in Vegas on the strip, that doesn't require an actual strip? These are things this person hasn't taken into account, or simply doesn't want to think about.” Jay Oh sweet, naïve Jay, keep dreaming your pipe dreams … “until women stop taking the easy way out of a male dominated society...” [I assume you are not talking suicide?] M So true M, abuse is the easy way out. Good deductive reasoning there. Big Bro says the victim is to blame… As for the repeated theme of not complaining about her work, how many of you (well, those of you who are employed that is) complained about you far less degrading jobs in these posts alone? Everyone complains about their work, why should someone whose job is contingent on their continued exploitation be excluded form the club? Sincerely (not) yours, Al the feminist p.s. Thanks to those of you who spoke out against the nonsense regurgitated in this comment section. Please keep posting your opinions, and where you got your info (links rock). Maybe the trolls here will learn something (that is if they can tear their eyes away from their rape fantasy porn online long enough to read something, thereby forming an informed opinion. i.e. one not endorsed by Larry Flint, chicken rapist extraordinaire)

Joolya

Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:39:35 -0800

"If she doesn't like what she does, she should get another job. If you don't want to be treated like a cum dumpster, DON'T GET A JOB AS ONE!" So "cum dumpster" is a legitimate profession to you. Seriously? You don't find that problematic? You like to look at the naked ladies whom you don't respect because, honestly, how could any self-respecting woman take off her clothes and let you look at her, ergo she must be a nasty slut who WANTS to be your "cum dumpster". Dude, you men have serious problems. If you in any way considered women to be human, you wouldn't be making these terrible comments. The world is a worse place because you people are in it.

Joolya

Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:35:21 -0800

This woman is amazing. If I had a job to give her, I would do it this minute. Men who think sticky lapdances are "fun" for anyone but them are worse than ignorant. It's interesting - in a train-wreck kind of way - to see how *defensive* and *offensive* the blokes on here are getting when their right to molest women is threatened. Telling, no? It's one short step away from blaming the poor for being poor, because if they weren't so bloody lazy and stupid they'd be rich ... Come on, assholes. This woman had a dreadful start in the world but she is articulate and brave enough to be interviewed and expose herself (pardon the pun) to misogyny, misunderstanding, and cruelty from you. If this were your sister, wouldn't you want people like to you to be nice to her? Oh wait, you'll say, "My sister would never be a (yuck) stripper!" Yeah, and you'd never do anything morally questionable if you were on the bottom of a shit sandwich, would you? Some empathy is called for - and a little less with the judgements. There but for the grace of God go thee, and all that jazz. Yes, this woman is responsible for what she does for a living, but she makes the point that while it is not less demeaning than scrubbing toilets, the money is certainly better. Yes, we might say, "Well, she ought to go scrub toilets if she doesn't like stripping!" But her whole point is that given a choice between two shit jobs, she's opted for the one that at least pays better. "You can't expect anyone to respect you if you don't respect yourself." That's a very "Christian" position! (She said with the utmost irony.) Barf. You people have no sympathy, no compassion, and you know why? Because having sympathy and compassion for this woman would interfere with your enjoyment of nekkid ladies with horrible lives who you are taking advantage of as much as NIKE takes advantage of poor Vietnamese women who work in their sweat shops for $1 a day to make your $80 shoes. Don't like the sweatshop, chicas? Well, it turns out that men will pay a LOT more than $1 to drool at your titties and grab your ass . . .

anashi

Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:22:38 -0800

Wow reading what the men have to say here is really sickening. It's interesting how caring and thoughtful the women's responses are, because I'm sure they're use to being treated like sex objects. I work at a coffee shop where I was told one day by a man out of the blue, 'You need to work on your strip tease'. He said this because I was bending down to pick something up. It's everywhere. It's not just in the strip clubs. Jesus, we still have a long, long, long way to go.

Ryan

Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:57:57 -0800

You lot disgust me. You project your self-loathing onto these women, turn them into a symbol of everything you hate about yourself, and then pay them so you can abuse this symbol and, by extension, punish yourself for being such a horrific monster. But that's not enough -- you must also believe the women enjoy it, which is why no-one wants to hear what this stripper is saying. Because if they don't enjoy it, then maybe they're not animals who should "shut the fuck up and ride the dick", they're not symbols, they're human beings just like you. And what kind of twisted ghoul would get off on torturing and degrading another human being?

Hedley

Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:02:51 -0800

Amber, quite clearly, you are neither ignorant nor naive anymore. That, all along, has been the quest here.

Amber

Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:57:36 -0800

I'm laughing so hard I might rupture something. I'm not sure, but I think that you are attempting to say that I am ignorant or naive, Hedley. I'm not the one paying for muff. That would be inadequate enough. Not only do you pay for muff, but you're not getting any. You pay to look at muff. I think that would disqualify you from being able to throw stones.

Seattle dance club patron

Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:03:50 -0800

I apologize to the dancer. I've never engaged in the behavior she complains about, but as someone who would choose a club that allowed touching over an enforced-separation club, I suppose I'm guilty by extension. On the rare occasions that I have enough money to "waste" in this fashion, I'll go with the intention of just watching and tipping, but when a dancer sits on your lap while you're watching the stage and nibbles on your ear, it's hard to remember your original intentions. I've never asked a dancer to do more than dance in front of me, but some have gone quite a bit further in the hopes of convincing me to tip better at the end. (Sometimes it works, sometimes I manage to remember the state of my bank balance.)

Hedley

Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:57:36 -0800

Amber, Have you not been paying attention? There is no actual "stripper" for you to have been quoting. How can you quote someone who is neither identified nor anonymously authentic? Exactly who do you claim to be quoting? And as for the city council part, if they thought they could have won the battle by presenting either side of the realities of a strip club, then they would not have tried to hide the first amendment behind eight parking places when going to the voters to decide. If you want to put it to a public vote about whether to allow the obvious-to-everyone-else goings on at a strip club, then fiiiiiiiiine! But stop supporting a government which clearly tried to hide their agenda behind a scandal of its own creation. In closing, Amber, I can understand why, um, uhhh, certain vending machines might be found in women's restrooms around society (and that is fine), but exactly why do you thiiiiiiiiiink condom machines need to be in the men's restroom at Rick's Strip Club? Please tell me that you don't believe it to have anything to do with eight parking places outside. Still telling it like it is*, Hedley (* and I'm OK with the status quo)

Zartan

Sun, 12 Nov 2006 03:25:34 -0800

Why doesn't that response surprise me? Believe it or not, there are strippers who don't like stripping because the money's too good. I've worked in strip clubs for over 10 years now, and I've seen this type of dancer (If indeed the person interviewed was a dancer. Sounds like a feminist that never got laid to me.) every once in a while. They never last long. Why? Because guys eventually see throught that crap and STOP TIPPING. I've seen gorgeous girls w/ crappy attitudes go home with less money than an average-looking stripper who has a great personality. A positive attitude wins every time in the strip game and guys can see through a bad one every time. Which I don't believe that this lady is a stripper. Why not use a fake name like you do when stripping instead of being "anonymous"?

Tony Mendina

Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:01:24 -0800

It's a fact of economics that the more scarce something is, the more valuable it becomes. There are plenty of people willing and able to work office jobs, so the wages are lower; there are few people willing and able to be strippers, so the wages are higher. The fact that someone wants the higher wage without doing the more renumerative work is simply unrealistic, though it's nothing unusual. Moreover, the stripper in question seems to want what would be, in effect, a government subsidy: she wants the government to ban certain things so that her competition can't do them. I don't really see why that should be done. Should the government ban all competing plubmers so that one plumber can make more money?

Amber

Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:49:17 -0800

Who ever said that I was shocked? I was simply pointing out that the poster was arguing at cross-purposes with his own interests. I've seen alcoholics make the same argument to absolve themselves of responsibility for their actions. They say that they can't control their alcoholism, that it controls them. I was quoting the stripper on the grabbing part. I have a feeling that if you asked more strippers, they resent being touched by patrons too, and it happens more than they would like. Yes, some of the patrons are respectful. Some of them are not. The gentleman above seems not to have that restraint or respect, and I suspect that if he made that argument to the city council he would only sway them in the direction of a four foot rule. He might also find himself bounced out of the club one day for his behavior. Excuses are like assholes, everybody has one.

Hedley

Sat, 11 Nov 2006 13:03:42 -0800

Amber, please... The "self restraint" shown by 99.999% of men who have ever visited a strip club is in NOT going back every single night of the year, month, or week. So yes, nearly all men are self-restrained on the topic of nude dancers. Your stance is parallel to that of someone who would suggest that random people have the same probability of injecting heroin whether they exercise "self restraint" and stay home, or spend two, three, or seven nights a week in a drug house. (FYI - of course people spending considerable time in a drug house are 'more likely' to inject heroin than those who have never been to such a place... yet maaaa-aaaaybe some at such a place will never inject heroin) It appears that the degree of your disdain for stripping, strip clubs, and/or the men who visit them is tied mostly to your apparent shock or surprise about what goes on there. If someone (the media) had explained it for years to you as clearly as I did a few posts ago, then you wouldn't have been shocked by the truth. Nor would you be as pro-change as you seem to be in your posts. FYI - on my occasional strip club visits I am quite well restrained and always very polite. The simple truth is, that after a few consecutive lap dances, customer and dancer become more interactive. This does NOT have to cross into "being grabbed" or in any way assaulted, as your words imply. Had you always known the full understanding of what "normal" is at Seattle's strip clubs, then you wouldn't be so seemingly stunned by what really goes on there. Blame the media for any shortcomings in the published picture of strip clubs that occupies the mind and perceptions of those who would never set foot in such a place.

Pete negwaski

Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:35:50 -0800

Dam!.... I feel for the girl.... Its hard to jump out of victim mode. No one told her there is dignity in getting help and working minimum wage? I know a waitress that makes 40 bucks an hour......

Amber

Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:29:07 -0800

Why can't people just enjoy the smell of fresh baked bread, as an end to itself, rather than becoming hungry, and wanting more as a result? Some people can, some can't. You're making an argument for the four-foot rule, whoever you are. What you're saying is that some people have the self-restraint to just enjoy the show and some don't. You're saying that you don't and that you can't be expected to restrain yourself. You might even be saying that you're incapable of said restraint. If that's the case, the city will look at it and say, "If we can't trust the patrons of these establishments to keep their hands to themselves, then we're going to have to do it for them. Four foot rule." More to the point, it sounds very entitled. You seem to believe that this should be accepted as part of the job, that johns should be expected to try to grab, because they don't have enough natural or cultivated self-discipline. They're men, after all, and what are men but uncontrollable slaves to their lust? That absolves them from any responsibility for their actions, and the strippers should know that. I for one feel that you're speaking for all men, and you're insulting about 70% of them. You don't give men credit for being able to control themselves. It's your way of justifying your viewpoint, because if all men behave like you, then you are normal. Not all men do. So what if the strip clubs lose men like you for customers. No big loss.

Budro

Sat, 11 Nov 2006 05:47:56 -0800

This lady will likely never get a job in the real world because of her overwhelmingly victimist attitude. Like it or not, people pay her to use her. If that's a problem, perhaps she should seek employment somewhere that doesn't require you to be a whore for your paycheck. No one MADE me go to college and get an education. No one MADE me go out and get a job. No one MADE me go to the job and take crap from morons all day. I do it, and take it, because that is what is required for me to live the lifestyle I want to lead. Like me, not one person she bitches about MAKES her do anything. Her own choices put her in the positions she has found herself in. If she wants some respect, she should learn to rely on something other than her body to get some cash. Develop some real skills, get a different job, or quit living a lifestyle you're not entitled to, lady.

Flick

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:58:08 -0800

She really didn't answer any of the questions. I was particularly struck by her ducking the one about why she didn't go work at the Lusty Lady or a suburban club. The real answer to that one is that she thinks a move would entail an income drop, in which cascase she deserves no sympathy. She could still make a decent living at a no-touching club, even with an income drop, but won't. Why then, is that anyone else's problem?

Hedley

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:17:36 -0800

James, it may well be a "real interview", but an interview conducted with Ellen Craswell some years back doesn't count as authentic in this context. Had this interview been conducted authentically and in the present, it would most certainly not make reference to any "unionized strip club... in the USA", when anyone who knows his or her sh*t on this topic is well aware that no such places exist!! What do you take your audience for? Thanks for your attempt, however, it simply comes up far short of authentic.

Anonymous

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 18:01:49 -0800

I realize that you are fairly well-spoken, but at the same time I can possible flaws in your comments. I realize that it's probably from a thought-provoking mentality that you are pointing out the worst-of-the-worst patrons that you encounter, but surely you realize this is not typical, atleast in most of the US states, of the often regular customers. "Why can't you just be happy looking at us beautiful ladies without making us have to touch your old, skanky, often-smelly manselves to pay our rent?" Why can't people just enjoy the smell of fresh baked bread, as an end to itself, rather than becoming hungry, and wanting more as a result? Some people can, some can't. And since you've chosen to drag out the dirty "old" man stereotype, what is too young and what is too old for a man to visit strip clubs? If you are willing to define what is too old, are you equally willing to accept someone deciding subjectively when a woman is too old to be performing? "I think you go for the same reason other men go, because we're a captive audience FORCED to smile ..." I would agree, but I would also agree with that for most other forms of entertainment. Few people want to go to Vegas shows and experience people with sad faces. "... nod and defer to your nasty wants because you're paying us to submit to your idea of what what interactions with sexy women should be." Sometimes, but you have the choice to draw the line somewhere. If you don't have the willpower to draw the line, or you are pressured by management, then you are in serious need of a career change for your own survival. "This whole industry is one big pretending. Johns pretending strippers really like them despite the bills prying compliance out of us and strippers pretending they don't despise the johns as much as they really do." The last time I went to a strip club, the girl on stage stared at me like I was the lowest form of life on the planet. I was just handing her a dollar while smiling, nothing more. I don't plan on going back... ever. Respect is more important to me, and the ones I associated with, than whether someone has their clothes on or off. It works both ways...

James

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:47:07 -0800

This is a real interview. I've got the Gmail archive to prove it. We don't make up articles -- we're not the Seattle Weekly, for God's sake. Whether or not the person who contacted me is actually a stripper, or actually a stripper in Seattle, I can't prove one way or another. I didn't recruit her from the local House of Lap Dances and don't know her real name. I am a little surprised at how many people think they're entitled to grab their strippers, though, whether or not this is a real stripper who's been grabbed.

Hedley

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:25:47 -0800

Oh, one glaring omission in my lengthy effort here was that Rick's desperately needed/needs more parking!!!! More than once I'd gone there, with the full intent of entering and spending $100 or more, only to find the parking lot completely filled, and then driving home instead. (on-street parking in that Lake City Way area is not too convenient, unlike in many other Seattle neighborhoods)

Hedley

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:16:53 -0800

First of all, I am an occasional customer of strip clubs in the Seattle area. As such, I feel qualified to suggest that it is extremely unlikely that the advertised 'stripper' interviewed here is or has ever been a stripper. Many of the context clues in the story just don't add up. Just exactly where is the nearest "Carl's Jr." to Seattle anyway? Also, there are exactly zero "unionized stripclubs". There used to be one, but of course, as any true stripper would know, it went out of business years ago. The supposed interviewer asked the supposed interviewee something so simple as "how long have you been (stripping)?" and clearly she couldn't even answer such an easy question. Despite such an obvious ruse, I think it makes sense to put the facts as they are down at this website. When many men such as myself want a night at a local strip club, "Rick's" is far and away the one we fancy most. The plain truth is that rules are disregarded more often at Rick's than they are at other clubs. At Rick's a so-called "John" can get more for his money during lap dances than is the case as most other area clubs. More truth about Rick's is that it is routine for customers to enter the establishment and soon depart to the men's restroom where a condom dispenser resides. Buy a condom for 75 cents, apply it in a stall, and then go out on the floor to find a seat and watch the action. In time, when invited for a dance by a woman one fancies, the pair retreat to the private dance area where plush arm chairs invite close, comfortable and secluded company, even though another dancer and her client may be as close as the next arm chair. Lap dances begin at perhaps $20 a song and many of the ladies are selling $30, $40 and $50 dances for those 3-minute tunes. Experimentation has concluded that the closest dances with the most physical contact can be attained either by opting for the $40 or $50 variety at first OR by lining up the $20 dances and then, if need be, graduating to the $30 brand by the 3rd or 4th song. These dances are quite enjoyable and arousal is almost assured by the middle of the 2nd song if not sooner. It is usually best to opt for many consecutive dances with the same dancer as she gets more and more 'friendly' with each song. Non-verbal communication between dancer and client often makes it clear that the client is near to orgasm, and by that point (perhaps 5 or more songs in, and with upward of $100 safely in her clutches) the dancers are usually quite willing to oblige the customer wanting to orgasm right there at the club, in his pants. Soon she will apply her attentions and usually her torso directly on top of that still-fully-clothed customer's manhood, and gyrate in rhythm to the music until he climaxes beneath her. This is how it is. (disclaimer: if your guy is going to Rick's for a bachelor party with the guys, it is not so likely that he'll go this route, with the other guys there, so not everyone need fear the apparent worst) When this whole strip club rule issue came up on the ballot, I had no beef with people on either side of the actual truth, wanting to vote their opinions and speak their minds on the realities of Rick's Strip Club. The problem with the way the City of Seattle pursued what it wanted in the way of rule changes, was that said city was unwilling to let the FULL TRUTH be stated anywhere. Instead, the city hid behind a battle over 8 parking places!!!!! Had this been nearby Dick's Drive-In that wanted 8 more parking places, and after trying everything within its political power only to still be denied, it would have been a civil travesty! Once the city deems (by doing nothing to the contrary) a business to be legal and legitimate, then any business neeeeeeeeeeds to be allowed to have the same right as any other business to alter their parking lot to better fit its needs. So in order to try to "win the battle" once and for all over Rick's Club, the city tried to end-run the premise of freedom of speech and expression by portraying the owners of Rick's as criminals and cheats, relating mostly to their pursuits of 8 parking places!!! (how can you call the pursuit of on-site parking for a business "Strippergate"??) Another unspoken-by-the-city factor in its cluster-f**ked effort has been the recently struck-down moratorium on new strip clubs in town. What better way to win that battle too, than to make up a strict rule that would make it unprofitable to build and open a new strip club in town. Now, about the rules that were proposed: indeed they would have effectively wiped-out strip clubs within the Seattle city limits. Spokane did something similar many years back and the clubs were immediately like ghost towns, complete with actual rope denoting 4 or 6 feet from the stage before patrons could even be seated. (This rule is no longer in effect there) I do know that my Seattle area strip club visits, which presently number 2 or 3 per year, would probably drop down to zero if the proposed rule changes had ever been enforced. I wouldn't be missed by many of them, but everyone else likely would be missed. IF you are a PTA mother, and are in shock and deep protest over the realities that essentially ARE Rick's Club (as described here, perhaps for the first time ever in print???), then I don't have any problem with you voting your mind, and voting directly in the face of the flimsy free speech connection that keeps such places in business. But PTA mom or not, I deem it wrong that you should support a government which would deny a strip club the right to increase its available on-site parking by 8 spots, just because of the sort of business it is. IF the city of Seattle allows that Rick's is a legitimate and legal business (which the city does, merely by not having closed the place down), then that same city MUST afford said business the right to add available parking as needed. No politicians would have been bribed to that end had common business practices been rubber-stamped by the government at Rick's, much as they would have been at Dick's Drive In. I hope this offers new clarity to at least one person out there.

Amber

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:45:01 -0800

She's right about how strippers get into the business. Prostitutes as well. http://www.stopcsa.org/cause.cfm http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/651/ Sometimes it seems like a big conspiracy, that women are abused as children to feed this big machine of the sex trade. Abuse them, then let it simmer into a great big complex. Then some other abuser spots her, because it's easy for predators to spot victims, and gets her into the sex trade, because she's already trained to submit. Maybe it is some kind of conspiracy to provide women for men who couldn't attract one honestly. If you asked strippers, porn actresses or prostitutes if they wanted to be there, usually they'd lie and tell you they did, because they don't want to admit the truth of the matter to themselves, let alone a stranger.

Katie

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:35:22 -0800

Ok women- speak up! This stripper's tale may be true, or not. But what's interesting is that no one (inc. the many people who have posted comments) denies that what she is subjected to tolerate at work is offensive/insulting/demeaning. BUT it's all ok because she chooses to strip and because she is compensated (very well) for it?? No it is not. Men know that this is a horrible way to treat women and rationalize it by the fact that women choose this work and are paid lots of $$ for stripping and more. Still does not make it right.

M

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:50:55 -0800

Obviously this is a complex issue, but it also seems pretty obvious that until women stop taking the easy way out of a male dominated society, their degraded conditions are never going to change. Sure its not fair to start out life at a disadvantage, but look at the alternative. By agreeing to be a stripper, you are just doing exactly what men want and perpetuating a false reality wherein women are treated like sub-human animals. No matter how much money you're making, its never going to compensate for that. Its not a pleasant thing to acknowledge, but in our sexist society the behavior of strippers affects the perception of all women.

Josh

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:39:35 -0800

By the way, both Lusty Ladys were no touching way before the SF shop was unionized.

Mr BOB

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:30:29 -0800

Holy shit stop your fucking whining. You don't like the job? Then fucking quit. Its obvious that you would rather have the money then work a normal job at $6.00 an hour. No one is putting you in this position besides yourself. So suck it up

mike

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:10:16 -0800

wow... you should just not strip. you obviously dont like the work, so why be one? id much rather have a stripper thats not a bitch dance 4 feet from me then stick my thumb in anything of yours lol. bottom line. you dont like it. dont do it and shut the f&*$ up

soup

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:47:28 -0800

I dont go to strip clubs, so Im not sure what the men are like, and I agree that it must suck hard having to do that for a living, but I have a problem with two things. First, This woman complains about the job, but the fact is she does not hate it enough to get a regular paying job like the rest of us. The amount that she makes is obviously compensating her (emotionally ) enough to outweigh what she has to go through. She is more than welcome to get a job somewhere else. If her only skill is dancing then she could start with an entry level job and learn a skill and eventually move on to management. Or she could take some of the 100 -300 dollars a day and apply it to at vocational school and get out that way. Second of all, If you are doing this job and you despise the people who pay your bills so much, but are not willing to do something positive about it, That makes you an codependant enabler, and are as guilty of perpetuating the problem as the clientel you serve. Change is hard. You may have to live at a lower lifestyle than you are used to, but if you really hate it and the men so much you need to leave it. your still young enough to reskill yourself to a diffrent career path. its going to suck hard at first, but if you work hard you can do it. If you wind up coming back into stripping, you need to then suck it up, because YOU made the choice to be there.

jay

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:46:02 -0800

While i'm sure this woman has had some issues in her life (if she's telling the truth), there's one fundamental flaw in her argument. There ARE other avenues she can explore to make decent money. There are modeling agencies that pay rather well, which require no "hands on" experiences as in a club environment. Perhaps an acting career? The Ring Girl job in boxing? A career in Vegas on the strip, that doesn't require an actual strip? These are things this person hasn't taken into account, or simply doesn't want to think about. In the end, her post simply makes one think that she's in it for the money. There are alot of people out there that don't have college degrees and make good money, because they are driven to succeed. She could to, but she'd rather take the easy way out and complain, than to get off her half naked butt and do something about it. she's completely responsible for her *current* situation, and she's completely responsible for doing something about it. And that, as they say, is that.

Sam

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:33:37 -0800

I've gone to Seattle's strip clubs, and never once bitten, licked, poked, etc any of the women who work there. Men may be dogs, but there are some out there who just want a little tail shaken at them and they're happy. On the other hand, the only thing that I can think to say to this worker is... Get another job, you whining, moaning piker.

jacob

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:15:54 -0800

If someone isn't comfortable doing what they're paid to do, they can do something else. Lord knows I don't make 1/4th what she seems to make, and if you're getting paid that much without having any extremely valuable skills, then you're going to have to get paid that much by doing something people don't want to do. If men were happy just "looking at (you) beautiful ladies", then why wouldn't they just hang out on the damn street - seeing as how the area is "dripping" with them? Or should local men just hand 20s to beautiful women on the beach, for the privilege of being able to see them. I realize that it's difficult to get into a job that can pay the bills, but considering that difficulty and impossibility, and in doing so considering stripping/lap dances a financial necessity, is illegitimate. The dangers involved - sexual assault, touching, even rape - are unacceptable, and that many of the managers of these establishments condone them is abhorrent. Now I'm unsure of the amounts involved in lap dances vs regular dancing, though I am sure that the income generated from lap dances is considerably more. The anonymous stripper (A.S) seems to suggest that it's ridiculous that men want to receive lap dances, and that it's disgusting that strippers are practically forced into this practice, in order to receive the substantial amounts involved. It seems, from her responses, that she believes that the women involved should be paid this substantial amount of money for the customary non-personal stripping. I'm sorry, but I cannot see the legitimate logic in that. Men in these instances are paying for a service which has several levels of effectiveness. It's not a very effective method of debate to use the "I'm not touching you, you're gross, pay me like I am touching you though while I dance over here". The job is often if not constantly demeaning, but the pay seems to correspond accordingly. For example, if I had a well-paying job wading waist-deep in shit pulling clogs out of a sewer. I might hate the job, I might quit the job, I might suggest that instead I just dump a barrel of drano down there, from a cleaner place. What I wouldn't have the right to do is demand that I should get paid for shit-wading when I just dump the drano in there, because I'm entitled it.

Juan

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:00:32 -0800

What a wench. If you don't want to be a stripper, then don't. You feel you should get paid 100's of dollars an hour just to be looked at? Are you that special? You sound like you think you're entitled to the good life just because you were born somewhat attractive. Being a stripper is "prostitute-lite" honey, get used to it or quit. I don't go to strip clubs because I don't like being hustled/used by retardedly-manipulative, vacuous, coke-whore lesbos that reek of baby-powder and cheap perfume.

Scott

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 08:30:13 -0800

"Who's gonna pay me $100-$300 an hour to wash their laundry, work at Carl's Jr., cashier for a convenience store, sell coffee, babysit kids, or anything else that doesn't involve sticking my bouncing breasts and little-girl shaved genitals in men's faces?" And there it is in a nutshell. You want the money, but you don't like what you have to do to get it. You have a lifestyle that $100 - $300 an hour has afforded you, and you're not willing to change it or give it up. Minimum wage is the best offered to ugly girls without a high school degree First the statement about being "fuckably hot" and now this. It's sounding more and more like in your own mind, you believe that you "deserve" to just have someone give you something. I'm not filled with a whole lot of sympathy here. It sounds like you took the easy way out. You know that you're hot and that guys would respond to that, so you chose a profession to capitalize on that. The question is, what are you doing to get OUT OF this lifestyle? Are you going to school on a serious basis? Are you trying to aquire a technical skill of some kind? Bottom line: You buy the ticket, you take the ride.

Walker Hassan

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 08:21:19 -0800

Oh, come now. It's pretty apparent this the subject of this interview doesn't actually work in the sex industry as a stripper. She comes off as an angry woman trying to be more convincing on the issue by claiming to be one. She can 'talk the talk' about strippers but can't come up with a reasonable excuse for why she is still in the job she clearly thinks is the worst thing in the universe.

Anonymous Like You

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 08:20:51 -0800

You're a freakin' stripper. Shut up and give me my lap dance, or get a real job.

ETech

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 08:18:58 -0800

you already said it. "because the real sexy women" your not real or proper, your a slum who has no self respect, you choose the easy way out and disregard your habits and blame them on past experiences. yet you complain about old evil men touching you. however i already know how dumb you must be, complaining about a place you work at knowing beforehand what life there is like. to the owners your nothing but a dollar. to the customers your nothing but a... well you know. where do you want to see this shining light of glory and be seen as a respectful dancer/model. it wont happen.

Michael

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 08:18:46 -0800

I once had a young woman randomly walk up to me and boast that she'd made $400 per day. Sizing her up, I replied that I make $1500 per day, and I don't have to take my clothes off. She went from upturned nose to dropped jaw. I said it to jolt her brain and make her open her eyes to possibilities. Two of the oldest and highest paying professions do not require a high school diploma (or GED). One is prostitution (which stripping in any form essentially is). The other is sales.

Bill

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 07:39:23 -0800

Throughout the article, she refers to men "making" her do things. No one's making her do anything, she is addicted to the money she makes and blames the men for it. If she doesn't like what she does, she should get another job. If you don't want to be treated like a cum dumpster, DON'T GET A JOB AS ONE!

no again

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 07:36:35 -0800

have the work == hate the work*

no

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 07:35:50 -0800

To the woman who interviewed for this article: you are the captain of your soul. If you don't want to play the lapdance game, then don't work at a place that gives lapdances. If you don't want to strip, then don't strip. Some women enjoy it (I personally know some dancers). Using the "who's going to pay me $xxx/hr" excuse doesn't fly. It sounds to me like you're addicted to or unwilling to give up the lifestyle that your career has given you. It's not the john's fault, that's your own. So, you love the money you get from work, but have the work? Hello, welcome to the American Dream. You *can* merely survive off of a minimum wage job at Walmart. If you want more than that, then again - that's your fault, and not your johns'. And the bad childhood excuse doesn't fly either. When I was 6 years old my dad held a gun to my head and threatened to pull the trigger if I didn't do x, y & z for him. He threatened to kill my mother & sister in front of me. I didn't turn into a meth-addled male prostitute because of it. I worked hard despite it, believed in myself, and made it through school to have a career. Don't get me wrong, I feel some empathy for the position you were in when you were younger. But you're not young anymore, and I doubt (although you're unclear about it...) your Dad is still poking you on a regular basis. Time to live your life the way you see fit and stop being a victim. You are the captain of your soul - steer the ship, don't merely be along for the ride. And if you let other steer it for you, then don't blame male-kind for your demise - blame yourself.

Larry E. Bigham

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 07:22:21 -0800

"You make us get naked as animals, a vulnerable feeling when surrounded by fully-clothed drunk/drugged men,..." Oh yeah, forced ya at dollarpoint didn't they. Join a convent and cover up and see if the pay matches what ya get now.

Kyle

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 06:31:51 -0800

It is sad that she has been through so much, but we run a free market economy and yes stripping falls under the rules of that economy. People are only willing to pay so much for a certain service. Paying the same amount for a dance 4 feet away, as opposed to a lap dance would be like paying the MSRP for a Ferrari and getting a KIA, it just doesn't work that way because the two services are not monetarily equal. No one is forcing her to work in this field, if she dis-likes it as much as she makes it out to be then she should curb her spending, and get a different job. Or she could just not offer lapdances, take the cut in money and stop trying to ruin the lapdance as a viable way for other women to make a substantial sum of money,women who don't seem to loathe themselves or their jobs near as much. The 4 foot rule honestly is not going to do anything but force many dancers to take a drastic cut in income. At the risk of using a cliche. You cant have your cake and eat it too. On a side note, the dancer being interviewed sincerely seems like a feminist pretending to be a dancer in order to project her views into body that will be (as she sees) taken more seriously, but the loathe and self-hate, and non-chalant use of several occurrences in her life (molested as a child, abused by a husband (notably a "macho" military man), Starting her dancing career underage. These are all things that kind of tip off one to the fact she may not be a real dancer. Also the aggressive attacking man-hating tone she takes is at odds with the persona she is trying to create. Simply put a drug addicted beaten molested and abused stripper who is too weak to stop stripping because she cant resist the money it pulls in (presumably for drugs?.) Does not come out and attack her source of income, especially in such an aggressive manner.

nate

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 06:25:02 -0800

you know, for a stripper, she sure hates stripping. All I see is, stripping sucks I hate it, but the money is better and I can do this because I am hot, so will keep stripping. I don't feel bad for this girl at all. Like her manager says, " lots of girls will take a finger in the ass for the knid of money your making", probally true, and it kinda comes with the territory. If you want to strip, to make money by being the object of men's desire and shaking your naked ass on the stage in front of a bunch of truck drivers after work, then you are going to have to deal with the lude, crude and inappropraite. I mean you are getting paid to take your clothes off, what did you think would happen? I really have no empathy for her in this situatution. You don't wanna get groped? Then get out of the strip club and go make 8 bucks and hour with the "ugly chicks" at Walmart.

You're a sad, sad woman.

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 05:36:35 -0800

You can't say that you're so unhappy and incensed about what you're 'forced to do' and claim that the money itself forces you to do it. This is a circular explanation and is, on its face, both illogical and indefensible. You have a choice to strip, lapdance, and go further. You have a choice to accept money for these acts. IF you are so upset by these circumstances, then suck it up and get a different job. While your childhood wasn't a fairytale, there are plenty of people making good money who were in the same situation - and don't take their clothes off for a buck.

brad

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 05:01:09 -0800

Never seen such self-righteousness in sometime. Note to stripper, use that 100-300 an hour and get a fricking education, dont spend it on drugs. And until then, dont whine. Your destiny is in your own hands.

Heather

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 04:32:07 -0800

Was a stripper. Everything this woman says is true.

CryMeARiver

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 02:25:37 -0800

No other job that only requires a pulse and proof of age will pay her that well. If she's so sick of this life she should concentrate on getting an education and get out of there. I have no sympathy for this woman because no one is forcing her to do anything. A majority of the people in this world need to actually work hard to make a good living, maybe she should try it.

Nathan

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 02:19:24 -0800

Wow. Interesting, but with the way she kept getting so upset I would have just said very plainly: "Obviously you like the money, but if it's so bad, stop doing it." I mean, how much more pissed off could she be before she does something about it? She's unhappy, but she can easily fix it by quitting. It comes down to what’s more important to her, the money or her pride? She's obviously made her choice.

Emilly

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 01:49:04 -0800

I totally agree with this article. Stripping joints are just another method of woman degradation by our male counterparts.

Orientis

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:39:12 -0800

What the hell? What the hell is this woman talking about? If you don't like doing lap-dances then don't be a freakin stripper! It's like complaining about having to serve ice cream when you work in an ice cream shop! Horny men go to strip clubs in order to be titillated by attractive women. That is the fact of the matter. If you hate it, don't do it. Trying to turn it into an argument against lap-dances is ridiculous.

Sam

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:36:35 -0800

My. God. Is this woman serious? I don't think there's anything more obnoxious than a self entitled stripper with a victim complex. Where else can a woman with no marketable skills make 100-300 dollars? MEN have a real racket going on? Where could a MAN with no experience or job skills go to make that kind of money? Maybe, just maybe he could make it as a drug dealer. Let me break this down for you. This is supply and demand. Many men enjoy looking at and groping naked women. Many women do not like this. This is why stripping pays so well. Now listen very carefully, because this is the important part. You are not entitled to make $200 an hour. You are lucky you have the opportunity to do so. Nobody is forcing you to strip. You are merely too greedy to stop. If you hate it so much, you can quit and see what it's like to be a broke man with no prospects; go get a job flipping burgers for minimum wage. But you don't want to do that. Know that expression about having your cake and eating it too? Tailor made for this situation. You think men are going to pay $30 to wiggle your hips around four feet away? Keep dreaming. Quit giving lap dances, and see what happens. Stop whining about your extremely high paying job. Either quit and get a real job, or shut up and get back to work.

George

Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:09:12 -0800

So, the consensus on Fark (fark.com) is that this interview has never taken place, the interviewee (lol) is not a stripper but a man-hating feminist. to quote: "I think this is a put on. It's like the woman is just one big giant stripper cliche. Molestation - check. Abusive husband - check. Talk of supporting drug habits - check. Started stripping underage as a naive and impressionable young girl - check. Constantly physically abused at her job - check." (TwistedFark, 2006-11-10) I tend to agree with this point of view. For further embarrassment please read: http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=2406324 Thanx! :)

Jared Lorz

Thu, 09 Nov 2006 23:42:28 -0800

You can't expect anyone to respect you if you don't respect yourself. I'm not saying what men do is right. I'm saying what you do is wrong. You're taking the easy way out to get a 300$ an hour job rather then hard work, studying, or dedication. When you take shortcuts like this through life you inevitably pay consequences such as the dirtbags of society abusing you as you claim. (I say claim because I have never seen a strip club where the bouncer will allow the type of activity you claim and I live in Portland.) I also have serious suspicions that this supposed "stripper" is fraudulent and is probably a church affiliated spokesman. My 2 bits.

Kreenshaw

Thu, 09 Nov 2006 23:34:46 -0800

BOOO Frikin Hoooo.. It seems that little bitter (your all pigs, but please pay to look at me) has 2 choices. 1. Stop working as a stripper. I feel so bad for you that you can't find another job that pays 100-300$ an hour. OH wait you can... its called a doctor, or wait any number of other real jobs that require more than looks. 2. STFU and make as much money as you can. As far as I know there is no retirement plan for strippers! AKA no old strippers!

J.C.L.

Thu, 09 Nov 2006 23:34:28 -0800

You get naked like an animal. We pay you gratefully for doing so. No one has a gun to your head saying "You must get naked" You just think you're too good to be making 7.50 an hour at burger king so you undress dance around flash your bits and get dollars showered down. As for the lapdances I've never paid for one and I never will. You need to realize you're the one that subject yourself to these conditions not men. You don't like it go work at JC Penny's or McDonalds. Otherwise STFU.

rob michaels

Thu, 09 Nov 2006 23:06:33 -0800

if you weren't stripping, what would you be doing instead? i know, read above, yadda yadda yadda. but there are industries where a person can make loads more money that stripping. for example, you seem to be educated, and highly intelligent. in all honesty, you seem like you could do anything!

Kang!

Thu, 09 Nov 2006 23:02:25 -0800

I'm with the strippers boss on this one. If you don't like the biz, get out of it. Obviously you think you're pretty hot shit and you deserve the ass loads of money you get for having no other skills than looking decent and having having no qualms about showing off your goods for the money. Welcome to reality. Hot chicks are a dime a dozen. If you think you're so goddamn hot and deserving of money without having to deal with jerks, I guess you better try to give it a go in a magazine. Then again, I'm sure that biz is much more competitive and you won't get nearly as much money for it. That's what you gotta deal with if you want the big bucks. So shut your mouth, shake your assets and grind on some old smelly cocks cuz if you want stripper money, that's the deal. Besides. Do you think you'd be making nearly as much as you do now if you aren't up close and personal enough to stroke the money our of his roll? As for me, I'm staying home and watching my damaged females on video. At least they aren't bugging me for a lap dance every 30 seconds.

cottus

Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:14:01 -0800

You make 100 to 300 bucks an hour? I think you should shut the fuck up and ride the dick like a good girl, or quit the business and go legit making far less. Either way, shut the fuck up. Every single person alive that I know makes less than you. If you don't like the cash, stop showing your tits. Your pay exists at MY pleasure, not the other way around.

Art

Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:33:59 -0800

What an utter load of crap. You make us get naked as animals and yet 99% of us are addicted to drugs How about taking some responsibility for yourself? How about you stop blaming your grandfather, your upbringing, your hard, hard life and do something about your situation or stfu? And the conceit! You think you won the genetic lottery? You consider yourself fuckably hot? Sweetie, there's nothing unsexier than a bitter, blown-out tramp who blames everyone else for her shortcomings and stupidity. If she weren't so pitiful, I would find this more offensive. As it stands, it's simply tiresome.

Kate

Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:46:55 -0800

This was a really interesting piece. It's simple to say that if she hates the job so much she should quit, and I don't want to say that she's not responsible for her own choices and actions, but I also have to say that of course she doesn't believe she can do better. Where are the examples of that happening? Where are the support systems for getting out? There are some, but clearly not where she will find them or believe them. Women are responsible for choosing to not believe or live by the sexist bullshit we get fed all our lives, but that doesn't mean that it's easy to get out of that mindset or that it isn't a bigger problem that it is pushed on us in the first place. I guess all that rambling is just to say - there's more than one angle to look at this from, and all are valuable.

drrew

Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:33:29 -0800

What a loathsome individual. It's obviously worth the $100-$300 an hour to have herself abused because she keeps doing it.

Leandro

Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:20:14 -0800

Nice interview. It shows how dark the world of strippers can be. Specially the last answer...

Wells

Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:17:19 -0800

Good lord she's bitter about people paying her money to do a job that she chooses to do because she implicitly thinks she can do no better. It's really hard to have sympathy for such a self-loathing person.